Good evening, Commander. Is everything ready? Step into my parlor, gentlemen.

Admiral Kirk, my God.

Very good for you, Lieutenant.

But it's damn irregular.

No destination orders, no encoded IDs.

All true.

Well, what are we gonna do about it?

I'm not gonna do anything about it. You're gonna sit in the closet.

The closet? What, have you lost all your sense of reality?

This isn't reality. This is fantasy.

You wanted Adventure House this.

The old adrenaline going, huh?

Good boy. Now get in the closet.

Okay. Huh?

Go on. Go on.

I'll just get in the closet.

Okay.

I'm glad you're on our side.

Paul, what a shockingly joyous moment it is to revisit this film. How are you feeling having just revisited Star Trek III?

I am feeling warm and cozy.

Right.

And nostalgic.

Yeah.

And it's so such an interesting film because at the center of it is so much grief.

Yes.

And loss. And yet there are moments of just exhilarating joy.

Absolutely. And you know, it's interesting because, you know, this film, I'm thinking about our podcast on Return of the Jedi. And I'm thinking about how, you know, I think we all agree that Empire Strikes Back is a better made film than Return of the Jedi. It's better produced, the visually, the visual storytelling, all of that stuff. And I feel like Star Trek III is kind of the same way. It's like this movie is shockingly a step down in production value and a lot of other values from Star Trek II. And yet it is wonderfully like just like, and like Return of the Jedi, it's the one I return to. I return to it far more than I do Star Trek II at this point in my life.

I would take issue with the former part of your assertion.

It is not as well produced.

Yeah, I don't think it is as much a step down as it is kind of a step sideways.

Into like TV movie territory. I mean, though it's like-

Somewhat, but some of this film, much of this film, I find startlingly gorgeous.

Yes, yes. Well, that's the thing, Paul, is that, well, you know what? Okay, okay, we got a lot to say. So on this note, all I'm going to say is I'm Javier Grillo-Marxuach.

And I'm Paul Alvarado-Dykstra.

And this is.

Multiplex Overthruster, Summer of 84.

Okay, so it's a movie about grief that weirdly is the most comforting film in the series, right?

Yes, I think in many ways the warmest and the richest love letter to these characters.

Right, right. But Paul, I'm not gonna step down from this. I gotta tell you, like, this movie looks really junky. It really looks like it's put together from spare parts in a way that Star Trek II maybe was the same production value, but it was just shot better. I mean, who made some of these choices? We gotta get into it. The Klingon dog? The Klingon, Kirk being in the puffy shirt. McCoy.

Kirk is awesome. Kirk's civvies are awesome.

His sopranos tracksuit.

I mean, there's Chekhov's little Lord Fauntleroy collar, which is unfortunate.

Oh my God. How about the wig on the co-pilot of the Merchant Man? The guy looks like Exeter from Metal Luna from this island earth.

Sulu has never looked more badass with his leather cape.

The best, the best. His electric blue, kind of like Dickie.

Yes, but yeah, no, this film is quite an anomaly and a detour.

And an oddity, and structurally very, also a little bit on the outside, structurally.

It is, yeah, a lot to talk about that.

So let's get into it. So, all right, this is the third film of the Star Trek series, but weirdly, the second film in a trilogy that starts with Star Trek II, this is the middle movie, and ends with Star Trek IV, The Voyage Home.

An unintentional trilogy.

Yes, but such a good one, right? So, in this film, we pick up straight from the end of Star Trek II, The Wrath of Khan, in which Spock has sacrificed his life in order to save the Enterprise from being destroyed in the detonation of the Genesis device, which was created by Kirk's son, whom he didn't even know about, right? So now Kirk's son and Savik, who was played by Kirstie Alley in the second film and is played by Robin Curtis in this film, have separated from the Enterprise crew to go explore the Genesis planet. Meanwhile, Kirk is trying to get Starfleet to give him this Enterprise back in order to go find Spock, right, or go to the Genesis planet because they found out that McCoy just kind of might have Spock's soul inside of his brain, right? So the film is really about the confluence of Kirk stealing the Enterprise in one of the best set pieces of all Star Trek, with the old timey crew. They go to the Genesis planet just as the Klingons survive wanting the secret of Genesis. Hyjinks ensue, and at the end of the film, they wind up with Spock's body with no brain, which is weird. That's happened before in Star Trek. That's kind of interesting.

Not as well.

And McCoy, and they wind up doing the ritual that puts Spock back together. And then at the end of this movie, we get a kind of a slightly addled version of Spock back, and it's a beautiful triumphant thing. I know that's a really messy summary, but it's a messy movie.

It is, it is, because simultaneously, this film is a mystery.

Yes.

It is a ghost story.

Yes.

It is a spy thriller.

Yes, it is. It's a heist movie.

It is a heist movie. It is a love story.

Yes, it is. Between Spock and McCoy.

Yes, and Kirk and Spock, and really among this entire crew. It really is. It's, I think at its core, and one of the things that I realize touches me so deeply about this, I'm a sucker for stories about devotion.

Oh yeah, yeah.

And the depths of devotion, of how far you will go.

Absolutely.

And no other film in the oeuvre of Star Trek underlines this, just centers itself on this to the depth and richness that this film does.

And it amazes me, Paul. It amazes me how a movie that feels, to me, so not uncared for, this is this, I mean, clearly this movie was made with love, but it's weird to me just how much it looks like first run syndication or a TV movie. And Star Trek II looked so much more cinematic than this. Let's just get into it, let's get into it. It's like, to me, the contrast between the richness of character and emotion in this film and the actual execution of it is, the gulf is so vast. But I can tell you disagree, let's get into it. Hey, producer Brad, let's have the bell.

Ding, ding.

Yeah.

Oh.

You're showing much restraint, Javi, not doing your Shatner when you're talking about the gulf.

It's such a wide gulf between the execution and...

I was tempted to suggest we replace the bell this episode with the with the Botswain's whistle from Star Trek II. So another thing that's striking about this film, this is the first venture into truly serialized storytelling that the Star Trek franchise has ever done.

That's true, yep.

And it throws out the window, the conceit and kind of like a holy stricture that a good sequel, any film in a franchise has to function on its own. Oh, God, no, no, this is not home. This film says, screw that, we're not even going to attempt to make a movie that could work for anyone who is not a devoted Star Trek fan and who knows at least Star Trek II from back to front.

And any number of other things, like, you know...

And, yeah, a lot of the other rich lore of, particularly about these characters and that it was rushed into production after the success of Star Trek II. We're hot on the heels and we're two years later with this film, put firmly in the hands and the reigns of producer Harve Bennett, who, yes, was a television producer.

Harve Bennett is one of my heroes, okay? So I'm not, and that's the thing. It's like, that's Paul, again, it's like, I'm gonna say a lot of things about the production of this film, but you know, like, I read the books about how Harve, you know, like the making of books, and Harve Bennett is the guy who kind of saved Star Trek, you know, and he doesn't get the credit Nicholas Meyer does. And frankly, he's not as talented a writer as Nicholas Meyer, but he was a great producer, you know? And he was the man, you know?

But I think he quits himself nobly. Oh, yes. Yes. Absolutely. Which I know had other hands in it.

Yes.

And the other thing that's, you know, very notable is that as part of the negotiation to get Leonard Nimoy to return to the role and to consent to letting Spock be revived after having maybe...

Insisted on having him killed, you know. Yes.

And after one of maybe the greatest character deaths, certainly in science fiction, but really across so many genres, was that he would have the chance to direct the film. And so this is his directorial debut.

And he wound up having a pretty good career.

He had a really great career.

He had like three or four other movies that were like solid.

Yeah. Well, Three Men and a Baby, which was a bonafide hit.

Yes. Yes.

So it's so many things going on with this film. And but I do want to say, like, for your criticisms, it is done on a budget and on a schedule.

Yes.

There are, you know, a lot of set pieces on, clearly on sound stages that are not locations. It's very economical, but it is so effective. And I think while the style is notably different than Star Trek II, it is there's a vibrancy of the cinematography by Charles Carell, who, again, TV shooter and also a massive TV director, who's still working and has just incredible decades' worth of TV directing credits. I think it's a beautiful film.

You know, I will not try to dissuade you from that, because I think that, you know, I mean, we need to get into the plot of this movie, but I got to tell you, like, why would I try to dissuade you from that? Like, this film is so emotionally satisfying. It's so much fun, you know? And yes, the script, there's a couple of lines in the script that are just clams, that you're just like, wow, like, and you'll see that flopping out of this dude's mouth, you know, but it doesn't matter, you know, because what I feel like, like, Harv Bennett got out of the text, and I feel like Nimoy got out of the actors, which I don't think he got visually out of the movie, but I mean, it's like, these people are like in Ghost, they're friends, like, we all know, it's a K and Shatner didn't get along very well, but you know, it's kind of like the same 12-stepping, you know, they all love each other in a very special way.

Yes, well, and without, and I know, just so I don't forget skipping past this before, I would say overall, almost every cast member and character gets such a beautiful chance to shine.

Everybody gets a great moment, everybody gets a moment, yeah, absolutely.

But Sulu, George Takei is robbed of something that was intended, which was that he was positioned for promotion.

Yeah, he was going to be the captain of the Excelsior, yeah.

And going to be the captain of the Excelsior. And that is a backstage frustration a little bit with the film and the script and for that character, but he has a spectacular swashbuckling moment.

Look, I would have given Sulu the captainship of any ship anytime, he was great, right? But I also think that had they given him the Excelsior in this film, we would have missed out on the glory. That is James B. Seeking as Captain Styles, one of the great assholes, him and Atherton should just get coffee together.

Absolutely. And in three films later, he is firmly established as Captain of the Enterprise. So anyway, we open with this flashback, literally recapping the end of Star Trek II with a very elegiac James Horner score, who returns to compose, which I think is...

You and I are going to have words about this score, because I have an interesting take on the score.

Okay, I'm very interested in that. And kind of brings us up to date, again, replays Spock's closing voiceover of doing the classic...

But kind of rushed, it feels faster, which I think, which again, is kind of like how I feel this... It's why I feel this movie feels like so much like a TV movie of its time. It's like everything feels a little, a little faster, you know, like, like maybe they're like, you know, just kind of speed it up a little bit, you know, I don't know.

Yeah, there's a little second act lull, but that's okay. Then we get this very reflective Captain Slough from the very wounded Enterprise that is returning home to Earth.

It's so sad, it's so sad.

And it is, it is very sad. And Shatner's reading of this log and what's expressed in it.

Yeah, Shatner's performance in this film. Okay, so, you know, look, we all agree Shatner's very theatrical, very dramatic, and his acting requires a certain suspension of disbelief. Okay, can we all agree on that? Okay, he plays this movie like he's King Lear, and it's wonderful. He's so big, but so, like, felt, you know? Yeah. And that's the thing. It's like it doesn't, is it a great performance? Is it bad acting? I don't care. I'm in it.

I think it has moments of greatness, and I think it has the single greatest moment he's ever had as Kirk.

Oh, my God. I can't wait to find out. I mean, I want to know what you think that is, because I got my own ideas about that.

Yeah. And we get like little nuggets, like, you know, him asking, he's already itching to take the ship out again after it's repaired and refit. He's asking Scotty, like, how long is a good take? He's like, oh, eight weeks, but you don't have eight weeks, so I'll do it for you in two.

That's one of the great lines where Scotty says, I'll do it in two. And Kirk says, do you always multiply your estimates by a factor of four? And he's like, how else could I keep my reputation as a miracle worker? And again, just such warmth, right?

Yes. And it feels like it's a payoff to an accumulation of setups from the entire original series that is now finally explicitly just kind of tied in a bow. And there's moments like that, just nuggets of thoughtful detail that are rooted in these characters and how much we love them and clearly how much R. Bennett loves them and Nimoy loves them and these actors. That is such a gift for anyone who's...

Well, also, Paul, we have this, we have the sad, you know, voiceover, you know, Kirk saying, Enterprise feels like a house with all the children gone, you know, and then, but then when they get into Stardoc is probably my favorite.

Yeah, we're not even there. We're not even close to space. All right, right, right.

Keep it, keep it, keep it going. Because I got a lot to say about Stardoc.

Well, there's a moment too where like this cadet or this younger lieutenant is like, are we getting a party? Are we getting a reception? And it lands totally wrong with Kirk and who replies, you know, we can't well should.

This time we've paid them better because this time we've paid for the party with our dearest blood.

Yeah, yeah. But he does it in, I know you're doing Over the Top, Shatner. That is not how it's performed.

No, it's not.

He is performing it more understated and heartfelt. And it works for me really well.

Anything, any moment while we talk about this film that I make fun of, it is purely out of love. I got nothing but love for this movie. And again, I am smiling, eerie, you're talking about it. And there's not going to be a single moment where I go like, oh, and this character, no, it's great. All the way. Yes.

But then right out of the gate, right after we have this opening Captain's Log set up.

Oh, that's right. We get into, yeah.

We get this surprise out of the blue, where we cut to one of your favorite things, Javi, Space Pirates. Space Pirates? The Merchant Man?

Oh, my God.

A hot Klingon spy.

You know, Paul, so the merchant, this ship is called The Merchant Man. I remember this from the making of book. I love how The Merchant Man is literally run entirely by a dude with a massive white wig. I'd never noticed him before. He looks like the dude from this island earth, right? Then sort of stubbly guy who looks like the second officer from the Battlestar Pegasus, right? And then behind them, they literally just have, the whole ship is one control console and a bunch of Samsonite suitcases that are in a web. I mean, it's...

And there's also this weird alien that we catch a glimpse of later. I've rarely noticed this weird kind of blue head or something. And yeah, but then it's like, it's kind of there for hire by this Klingon Spock.

Yes, who is relaying the data for the Genesis device in another rehash from Star Trek II. She is sending the Genesis device film from the Star Trek II, now narrated by Kirk, in the form of a report to the Federation about Star Trek II.

Yes, because Bibi Besh was not hired to return as Carol Marcus, so her VO has to be replaced. So again, that's like, we're saving a little money.

Saving a little money here, yeah.

But then we get one of the greatest reveals.

My god, Becky, yes.

In Star Trek history, another of multiple new ship designs.

Yes, yes.

Like we were excited, Star Trek II was the first time we'd ever seen a new Federation Star Trek fleet ship design in the real line. Here in this movie, for all of its budgetary constraints, we get a feast of new spaceship designs, starting with the iconic Klingon Bird of Prey.

Also, by the way, I want to say, I love The Merchant Man. I know it's like a shitty little tram steamer, but I just even love seeing a ship like that because it just gives me a sense that the world is bigger than the Federation and I love that. And then when the Klingon ship decloaks and it's also bright green, which is, because the D7 Klingon battle cruisers that they used in the motion picture and then rehashed in Star Trek II, they were like the ones from the original series and they're gray and this comes up and it's like, it's bright green. It's amazing.

With the bird painted on the back, it looks like a big, it has got, it has got so much flair. It's so, it's just one of the great ship designs of all time.

It is the Star Trek version of the Camaro from Smokey and the Bandit, like the Trans Am, I'm sorry. Like, I know, right?

Don't even.

So good. I love it. I love it.

And commanding it from across the Paramount lot.

Oh, my God.

Is none other than the great Christopher Lloyd.

He must have just, he was making taxis next door and they just brought him in and put him in a Klingon outfit and let him rip. I mean, wow.

With his muppet demon dog, Targ.

And Targ was called, the crew called Targ Fifi Robozo. That was the name that they had for the pup. I don't know why I remember this from when I was 14, reading these making up books or Starlog, but that's what I remember. That was the crew's nickname for the dog, the Terror Dog.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's gorgeous, it's great.

But okay, so Captain Paul, let's talk about Christopher Lloyd. Let's, let's, let's, let's, let's.

And, and. John Larroquette. The efficiency, well, and also the efficiency of backstory reveal of this entire romantic relationship.

Between Valkyries and Krug.

Between Valkyries and Krug. Lord Krug. And how it is, this is a master class, I think this scene and this exchange between these two characters. We've never seen them before. We're never going to see her again. But holy crap. And it is as simple as she's, she's.

He says, did you spy?

She's, she's, she's gotten the plans, the secret Death Star plans, but for the Genesis device, she's transmitting them to her lord, the Kranger Krug. And then she says something like, I think you'll find them interesting.

You're gonna really like what I'm sending you, boss. It's really good.

And she knows what she's saying because she has honor. And he understands immediately what she's saying and asks, then you have seen it? And she says she has, and he says how unfortunate.

She says, I understand and then...

And she calls him my love. And she knows her fate is sealed because she could not contain her curiosity, but she was not going to deceive or dishonor herself.

I don't know that she didn't want to...

But also, she had to verify...

Exactly. She did it out of honor to make sure that she's getting the right thing because she's a warrior.

Yes, but she knows that she is a link in this chain of the Empire and Cruz then swoops off and the pirates are like, hey, when are we getting paid? Soon, Captain, quite soon.

By the way, if you're ever a mercenary and you don't get your money right up and you go, when am I getting paid later? You're like, oh, I'm granddad.

Well, just to be clear, the conversation that they had was in Klingon.

Yes, that's true.

So the crew of the ship didn't know what they were saying.

That's true, yeah, exactly.

Exactly. Presumably, they do not understand. There is a lot of good subtitled Klingon in this film.

I want to throw something else in here, by the way, about this because I... Again, the third scene, our characters haven't even shown up. Kirk, shut up for a second. So Paul, this was the golden era of novelizations too, right? Like the 80s, like Alan Dean Foster's writing the Abyss novelization. You've got like Vonda McIntyre writing Star Trek novel. I mean, it was great, right? And the novelization for this had a whole short story about that little blue alien and how it had a friend in the merchant man and the little blue alien realized that they were going to die before anybody else did. And he tried to like get the other, the friend to escape from the ship. I mean, it was like a whole other thing. And it was, it just fills everything.

Oh yeah. I mean, and don't even get me started on the pond far stuff that had with Savick and Team Spock.

Oh, by the way, also Savick and David were having a hot affair in the novel. Yes, it's a whole thing.

Yeah, yeah.

The novelization's got kind of wild. Yeah. Anyway, the Bird of Prey...

Merchant Man is 86th in the world, Lea.

Yeah, yeah.

And they go off and he's got what he needs. And then we cut back to the Enterprise now, returning home. And this is really, I think, the first time we've ever properly seen the Enterprise return to Earth. And awaiting it in contrast to the skeletal dry dock... From Star Trek, The Motion Picture, and Star Trek II that was reused. They do not reuse that. We get one of the greatest models ever made.

Oh, so cool, right?

For Star Trek, which is this massive, incomprehensibly impractical city in space, space dock.

It's the best. It's so good. That giant dome.

And it's awesome. And the shot. And again, I just want to say, the way this film manages scale. So like we have the little merchant man, and then we establish its scale by this bird of prey that de-clopes looming over it, looking huge.

But the bird of prey is actually like a cruiser.

The bird of prey is a scout. It's like it's a small ship compared to the Enterprise. Here we see the Enterprise enter frame from below, and we know the scale of the Enterprise. And then we get the reveal. It's like, oh, it's returned to Earth. And then the reveal of Spacedock, which is that massive compared to the Enterprise.

And then inside of Spacedock is the Excelsior, a beautiful ship design, by the way. I love the way the Excelsior is designed. And they wound up using it for the next 25 years in Star Trek. It was basically like the workhorse ship for the Federation through all of Next Gen.

And there's a wonderful exchange about... You know, Sulu is admiring it.

Oh, Sulu's excited.

As we know, like he's supposed to be the captain.

He's like, oh, it's the new hot rod. Absolutely.

It is the next generation of Starfleet Starships. But yeah, Scotty is like mocking it.

He says, basically Sulu says it has transwarp drive. And Scotty says, yeah, and if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon.

Yeah, yeah, it's great. It's great. And Kirkus Chass dies again, like, you know, young minds fresh with the other. Like, I just love these little exchanges that are so in character, so true to them.

And in the middle of all of this grief over Spock, our characters, they are friends. And this is, you know, they're going to have their little things. You know, it's great.

Yes, yes. And we also get a little cameo by Grace Lee.

Oh, I love this so much. So yes, Yoman Rand from the...

That's Janice Rand, who we have not seen since the first season, I think?

No, she was in Star Trek The Motion. She was in Star Trek The Motion picture.

Oh, yes. She was running the transporter.

But I love how she sees the Enterprise and she stands up and it's just everybody slowly stand. It's like one of those, it's like a slow clap scene, which should be cheesy AF. And it is, but it's still so stirring.

For me, it landed like Tomorrow Never Dies. The opening sequence when, for the first time, everyone back home was watching Bond in action.

Yes, yes.

And they're going to see what we've seen, how hard it is and what really happens.

Yeah, yeah. But then, immediate plot twist. There is an energy reading, a security alert from Spock's quarters that had been ordered sealed. And dun, dun, dun. And so now Kirk races down and we hear Spock speaking and Javi, we have a ghost.

Oh, that's right. That's right. And it's delicious.

And there's a figure in the shadows. Spock's quarters are dark.

Yep.

And Kirk rushes this shadowy figure.

You're hearing the Spock theme, the kind of the Andes, Martino, Spock theme.

And Spock is saying, help me.

Yes. And he's saying, and he's saying, you, you left me. You know, why did you do that?

Why did you do that?

Which is, which is, by the way, it's such a, it's such a, it's great.

It's dark and it's mysterious and it's haunting and it's, it's Spock's voice, unmistakable voice. But Kirk grabs the figure in the dark and it is McCoy, who is somehow either gone mad or is possessed.

What we, what Kirk doesn't know is that at the end of Star Trek II, Spock mind melded with McCoy before going to his death.

Now this is going to be a revelation later in the movie, but we know this because, you know, because we're nerds and this entire film of Star Trek III is concocted out of that one scene, that one shot.

Which they added not knowing anything, like they literally did it in the largest scene.

Right, they didn't know what it was, but they were like, we need an escape hatch in case we want to bring Spock back.

By the way, just like the shot of his tube soft landing was literally one of the, like, I think Robert Salin, who's the producer of Star Trek II, literally went out to Golden Gate Park with the prop and a camera and shot it.

Because Nicholas Meyer refused to film it. He was willing to do it, remember, and the mind melded with McCoy, but he was not willing to take it that far. As to showing the soft landing of the casket. But from that springs all of this. And he's asking, he's pleading now in his own voice, take me home, climb the steps. Climb the steps of Mount Soleil. Why is that so funny to me?

Oh my God, which is the thing Spock had to say when they mind melded.

I will say one of the unfortunate things about this film is we never actually get to see them climb the steps of Mount Soleil.

They kind of cheated because they landed on top of Mount Soleil.

Well, at least on one of the upper levels, not all the way at the top.

You know what, Paul? I think Kirk got his steps in anyway. I think we're okay.

This is fair. This is fair. This is fair.

So now Admiral, what's the name of the Admiral?

Maro.

Yes, comes to see the crew as they have an inspection.

Yes. Yeah.

And I love the actor who plays this. One of the things I love about Star Trek in general, but I also love, look, it's like we're in the, you know, what can you do? It's the 80s. Oh, Jesus Christ. All right, all right.

You should have saved that for McCoy at the bar.

Oh, you think I only get one? Anyway.

God damn it. I shouldn't have.

So anyway, no, but what I wanted to say is, so, you know, look, more liberal minded producers of television and film during these times of racial prejudice did would put, you know, minority actors in two roles where, like the judge or the admiral. So like, you know, in Star Trek, in classic Star Trek, you know, like you had Dr. Mabenga, you know, you had the guy from the Dystrom Institute, you know, and the Dystrom Institute. And it's like, I love that this is our admiral, you know, this is Kirk's boss that actually makes it. And I feel like as a minority, I don't know if you can relate, but you know, we talked about how like the Cuban commander in Red Dawn was like a character I really liked, right? I just feel like this was in some ways, like if you're a minority, you could actually see your own people in kind of roles of authority over Kirk. It's kind of a cool thing, you know?

Yes, played by Robert Hooks, who's playing Admiral Morrow, and he has a couple of really great scenes. And this one, you know, he's telling all the crew that basically are proud of them, that they're getting the highest commendation.

And then comes the shit sandwich.

And extended shore leave, except for Scotty, who is being reassigned to the Excelsior as Captain of Engineering.

They need his expertise over there, yeah.

Which he doesn't want to do. He wants to stay on the Enterprise and supervise the refit or repair.

And here comes the whammy. Here comes the whammy.

And then Admiral Morrow says, no, that's not going to be necessary. They're basically going to mothball.

The Enterprise.

The Enterprise. And here's one of a few little nitpicky things that make no sense in the film, in the script. He says the Enterprise is 20 years, which doesn't make any sense.

No.

Both in terms of that, yeah, the Enterprise had two captains before Kirk in the original series. And it's just like, and also you would not decommission something as costly as the Enterprise as a starship after only 20 years of use.

Yeah. It's bizarre. It makes no sense. But you look, Khan shot the shit out of the ship. It's in bad shape. Maybe the repairs are more expensive. We don't know. We don't know. We know the bean counters. It's over at Starfleet. We're thinking about this stuff, but yeah.

Who knows? Kirk is like, wait, no, we want to return to Genesis. Mauro makes it clear, this is important information, good exposition relaying, that Genesis has now become this political hot potato. It is now a quarantine planet, a forbidden subject, it is classified. All of them now are not allowed to even speak of it.

It turns out extended shore leave is like exile because they know way too much about something that's a real problem.

They're all being sent to the village from the prisoner. That probably looks the same. Then we're back with Krugge and his top lieutenants.

Korg and Maltz.

Yeah, we're viewing and Maltz played by the great John Larroquette.

This is the thing about Star Trek in the 80s and it's so funny because I feel like as production design and just how seriously or not seriously people take these things and all of that has evolved over the years. You have a much more cohesive hair styling, costume styling across the board and everything. Also, actors tend to be a little bit more. Whereas I feel like in the 80s, you had a repertory company set out of LA. I feel like I love John Larroquette and I love Christopher Lloyd. And I think Christopher Lloyd actually gives a pretty great performance as this character.

He is going to town.

But he's Christopher Lloyd.

He's Christopher Lloyd, that's a gling on.

I love it and then I'm also going like, he's Christopher Lloyd. It's such a cognitive dissonance.

Yes, and Larroquette is less recognizable, but it's also that you know they were just like, oh, he's available. He's on another Paramount production right now on the TV side. We can get him for cheap because, hey, you get to be a Klingon in Star Trek and live the dream.

The other thing is this is only the second time you're really seeing Klingons in the movies, right? And so they haven't figured out, Ron Moore hasn't come in and figured out the Klingon Empire yet, okay? So it's like, so the Klingons are very, they all have a very, they're all very like, they move very quickly and they all speak in a very stilted way and they, you know, so it's like the whole culture of the Klingons has not developed and they've all sort of their own unique interpretation of, and it's weird.

Yes, because this is a very different type of Klingon vibe than we got from the motion picture Klingons. But at the same time, and by the way, and I should mention before I forget, Larroquette's Klingon appearance in this film, there's a callback semi-sequel payoff to it in an episode of the recent reboot of Night Court.

Jesus!

If you didn't happen to see it, that I don't remember the episode, it's easy to find and figure out, but there's an episode where Larroquette basically gets to put the Klingon stuff back on. Really? It's kind of wild.

Okay, that's amazing. That's amazing. All right, but anyway, so we got some...

But anyway, but anyway, but there's a difference of philosophy. Kruj is like testing his lieutenant. Yes. Because Kruj sees Genesis as a weapon.

Yes.

Whereas Maltz, apparently a little more worldly, philosophical Klingon is thinking, oh, impressive. We can make planets. He's seeing the Atlas Full in terms of his creative force, whereas Kruj and the other guy are seeing it as the ultimate weapon. And so then he dismisses Maltz and conspiratorially whispers that even as our emissaries negotiate for peace, we're going to seize this weapon and violate the neutral zone, go to Federation space, go to this court, whatever. And like, yeah, okay, they're on a, like, okay, this is not gonna end well.

The thing about Kruj that I love, that I love is Christopher, it's okay, Christopher Lloyd is giving a big performance. He's playing a big character.

It's a little hammy.

And because it's Christopher Lloyd, it's sort of unintentionally funny, right? Yes, yes. And also because the Klingons, again, a lot of them have New York accents, which is weird. You know? But what I think is great about this character as a villain is that he's actually pretty ruthless. And he doesn't, like, and we'll get to it once they get into the actual fight and all that. Well, we'll get into it, but even though there's an unintended comedy to the performance, Christopher Lloyd plays this guy like he's not entirely hinged and you don't know what he's going to do. And that makes him really interesting and dangerous, which I think is something that, in spite of the script being a little hammy and the performance being hammy and being Christopher Lloyd, it works. He's not, he's not Khan. I mean, Khan was a fully inhabited character. This is like a weird, but it works because he's just about being an antagonist, you know?

And there's an escalation of his ruthlessness, or rather the revelation of the depth of his ruthlessness that we get over the course of the film that becomes increasingly more menacing and threatening.

By the time Kirk loses his patience with him, we all have, you know? We're all like, dude, this is just dick move after dick move. We're done here.

Yes.

All right, but let's keep going. This is so much fun.

Then, now, you know, we cut back to the Genesis planet where another, like, we're getting spoiled. Another beautiful new ship design.

It is a banquet, right?

The USS Grissom.

By the way, and I just, Paul, you may remember, we covered a little movie called Streets of Fire.

Yes.

And I said that one of the things about why nerds love Streets of Fire is because it's so broken and kind of little, right? And I love the Oberth class ship so damn much. And I know it's not a fast ship, it's not a great ship, it's not an arm, but the Grissom is like, I don't know why I love that design, it's so dorky, but it's kind of a great ship.

It's just cool. And it's this little science vessel, and it's just, yeah, but what I love, again, it's one of the things I love about this film is the sense of, oh wow, there's this wider variety of Starfleet.

They do open it up quite a bit from II and certainly from the motion picture. You're absolutely right.

Yeah, yeah, and they didn't need to do that. Like they could have done.

They could have taken the reliant out of mothballs, called it the Miranda, so the Miranda class ship.

Yeah, yeah, whatever, but they're like, no, no, no, it needs to be a bluer little.

We got the Merchant Man, we got the Overthr class, and we got the Excelsior class. I mean, it's amazing, you know.

I think if I wanted to make this a three hour podcast, I'd ask you guys to rank your top five ships from Star Trek.

Save that for the multis.

Yeah, save that for the multi awards, yeah.

So, Javi, picking up on your point about that, you know, the 80s weren't the most diverse, but then periodically we would get supporting characters that would be, let's say, token gestures towards diversity. And here we get...

By the way, tokenism was welcome to me. I mean, it's sad, but it's like, you know, you got what you got, yeah.

Sometimes. And we get on, commanding the Grissom is Captain Esteban.

JT Esteban.

But played by a non-Latina.

Yep. Yep.

And there's a Latino kind of presenting comms officer.

There's an Uhura. They've got Uhura.

Yeah. Who, you know, could be Puerto Rican.

Could be.

Who knows? I shouldn't have looked that up. But I'm just like, could you not have given us a Latino, like a true Latino captain?

JT Esteban. The guy's name is JT Esteban. I forgot his name.

Even though he's going to be blown to smithereens, like by the next act.

He's like, he's kind of like a like a. I mean, also, why is his name JT like James T. Kirk? It's weird, right?

It is.

Like was Harv Bennett just like, I don't know, just called him JT, too, that they can call him JT.

It's really weird. And then we we see our along with David.

Yes, our new Savick.

Our new Savick played by Robin Curtis. And this is just an unfortunate unfairness of the film and of the universe.

Yeah.

Because, you know, despite any other things about Kirstie Alley, she was Savick.

She embodied that character amazingly.

Perfection as Savick in Star Trek II, aside from the fact that inexplicably she has neither Vulcan nor Romulan eyebrows, which I never understood.

Yeah.

Why that was not again.

It's like, it's like, it's like they don't, you know, like, like the thing about the 80s is, you know, like these, these things are being handled by different producers at different times and the, the canonicity and it's just, you know, it's, it's all over the place.

Her price had gone up, I believe, because of Cheers by this point. And they couldn't make or wouldn't make her deal. They're staying on a strict budget. And so this opens up a wonderful opportunity for Robin Curtis to step in. But it's also tremendously unfair because Kirstie Alley, who is a big fan of David Savick, is just nailed it.

Her personality is very, her look is so specific.

Yeah, they look so different. They act so different. They sound so different. It's jarring. It is, yeah.

And Kirstie Alley didn't do Cheers until 87.

Oh, so she just wanted more money. Okay, well, there you go.

Yeah, there you go. Thank you for that.

So anyway, so she and David, so she and David. But she, you know, and again, she does her game best. But it's, the part's not written as well in this movie either.

No.

So, you know.

And they're scanning the planet and lo and behold, they locate-

They catch up to the end of Star Trek II.

Yes, they locate Spock's casket slash torpedo tube and a life form.

A life form.

And even though there are not supposed to be any life forms other than plants.

Which is weird because you can't have an ecosystem without insects and shit like that, but whatevs. The Genesis planet suddenly gets really, the rules get real squishy around this time. Because the planet also has like 20 different ecosystems running at the same time within miles of each other, and it's like the planet's gone cuckoo bananas. It's not good down there.

Yeah, and again, in terms of efficiency economy, this is obviously a redress set of the bridge, the same bridge. Then we cut to a redress set, or a reuse set of Kirk's apartment from Star Trek II.

What we understand, David and Savick are going to beam down to the planet to check out the life form.

Not yet.

Not yet.

I don't think they're giving permission to yet, or are they?

I think, yeah. It's like they asked JT Esteban if they can go down, and JT Esteban is a very careful man. He's like, oh no, we're not doing science over here. That might be dangerous.

Yeah, first I think David suggests like, well, let's beam it up and see what it is. It's like, are you crazy? No, we're not doing that.

Okay, JT Esteban is right in that case.

Yeah, but then, yeah, they do negotiate and say, let's go down and investigate it. And so we tee that up.

And then we get Kirk in his Tony Soprano track suit, man. This is something. Oh my God, Becky. Wow. Yeah.

It's a good look. And he's there with Sulu and Chekhov and Uhura.

In their civvies. We've seen them in their civvies for the first time ever, I think, other than McCoy and Star Trek in the motion picture, you know, where he had the big medallion. That guy was styling in the motion picture, you know, but they're looking good.

It's apparently been sedated to the gills. Yes. Put in, put in medical care, getting treatment for whatever is ailing him. And they're waiting for Scotty and the doorbell rings. And it's not Scotty.

And if you, by the way, and if you haven't seen Star Trek at all, you have no clue who this is. He just walks in, the scene starts and no exposition. Like, Sarek, you know, they don't say he Spock's dad anywhere in there.

We know, from one episode of the original series, A Journey to Babel, that this is, holy shit, Mark Leonard returning as Sarek.

Mark Leonard played the Romulan commander in Balance of Terror, right? He played Sarek. He played the Klingon at the beginning of Star Trek.

Commander.

Yes. And I mean, this early Star Trek lore is so great. And I also love, look, the Vulcans basically are all space Jews, you know, and it's kind of the best thing ever because you see in Nimoy and Mark Leonard that kind of, you know, these are like, you know, Jewish New York actors. And it's like they're playing these logical, you know, characters supposedly, but they're very like, you know, Kirk, what did you do to my son? You know, it's wonderful.

And he's not that much older than Nimoy.

Not really, no.

But you know, Vulcans age differently or not. But the gravitas that lands, as soon as that door opens.

He comes in with that hood, where he's wearing a hood.

And he reveals his face.

Like Kira in The Dark Crystal, you know?

Because now we are leaning, the film leans into fantasy. It's almost like this wizard arrives.

Yes, it's like Gandalf shows up.

This mystical character from this other world of Vulcan. And Kirk is trying to be pleasant and greet him and welcome him.

Oh, Serik is having none of it.

I love how he literally is just like, I will speak with you alone, Kirk.

I love that so much. He's such a Vulcan. Because we used to Spock and Spock has learned some of the niceties, you know, because he's half human. But yeah, Serik just walks in and he's like, he's like Clarence Bautiker in RoboCop. He literally walks in and goes like, bitches leave.

You know, and let me just point out, Serik's profession is diplomacy. He is the ambassador from Vulcan to the Federation.

I love this so much.

And then immediately he just starts railing on Kirk. Why did you leave him on Genesis? Spock trusted you. You denied him his future. He's so angry.

I love how angry he is. It's so good.

It's like, what are you talking about? And he's like, he asked you, he entrusted you with his very essence, his cotra, his living spirit. A new dimension of Trek lore and Vulcan mythology created for this film.

Number two for unknown blip in Vulcan mysticism that we were not aware of, which by the way, I think actually works for the film. Because look, Spock is the first Vulcan officer in Starfleet, right? I mean, that was sort of set up in the canon.

Canonically, yes.

And by the way, the other one, Commander Sonak died pretty gruesomely in Star Trek The Motion Picture, if you remember. What they got back didn't live long, right? So, and later in the movie, Admiral Morrow says, I never understood Vulcan mysticism. And it's interesting because you get now the sense, much like in the original series where the first time Mark Leonard arrived, they didn't know anything about the Romulans. And I'm getting like, we don't know that much about the Vulcans, actually, even though we learned a lot about it in the series, like they're still should, they're keeping something private, you know?

And also, given that the Vulcans are the first alien race that humanity ever has first contact with two centuries prior to the events of this film. But anyway, let's leave it at that.

Can I ask a question to the Star Trek guys? So, did they create this idea of planting of the soul in this movie, or did they have it planned in the second movie?

It wasn't planned, I mean, they just got...

Yes and no. Yes and no. So, the seed of the idea of the mindmail being something, but it was not fully baked, it was not thought through as far as that, oh, it's gonna be his Katra, he's basically downloading or backing up his soul into McCoy. They hadn't thought it all that through, they were just like planning a seed that then somehow that'll give us a way to use it.

Somewhere down the line, a Trekkie said to me that they had planted the idea that the Vulcan's Katras went to the Great Hall of Ideas or something, but I don't know where the heck that came from, so I don't know. It's not established, it never was established.

Isn't the Hall of Ideas Dan Lee?

Oh, that's right, yeah. They go to work for Marvel, that's what happens.

No, that's the...

House of Ideas.

The House of Ideas, the House of Ideas. Subtle but important distinction.

So, Serak asks Kirk to mind-meld with him so that they can see how Spock died and figure out what happened to his living essence, you know?

Because they clearly are not on the same page. They have two very different theories of the case. But this scene, the mind-meld scene, is so good and so rich and layered.

Because again, this is the third time that we're reliving, this is the second time in this movie and the third time in Star Trek where we're living Spock's death over. We saw it at the beginning of the film, and now we're seeing it in a mind-meld, and we saw it in Star Trek II. It's like, it's, you know. But they have to make it, they have to make it dramatic.

It is the first time, and Kirk never thought he would have to relive it, but Kirk gives consent to be traumatized. Out of devotion to his dead friend, and to honor his friend's father, who is here seeking answers. And they, and it's a beautifully performed scene. And as Cerec is kind of, again, catching up, getting glimpses of their friendship, of Spock's death, and it ends in this heartbreaking beat.

Yeah, Kirk confesses that he was separated from Spock physically.

Well, no, no, before then, I'm talking about the mind mill. The mind mill itself ends as he is forced to relive Spock's death.

Yeah, so they say the dialogue together, yeah.

And his voice breaks as he says, no, as, and that to me breaks my heart. It's that he's having to live this most painful event again. And then, Serak realizes what I'm seeking is not here. And Kirk's like, yeah, we were separated by glass, we couldn't touch. And then, it's this tragedy of like, well, everything he was, everything he knew was lost, but Kirk knows Spock better than Serak. And Kirk stops Serak as he's leaving and says, please wait, he would have found a way that Spock would have found a way. And Serak then is like, okay, you're probably right. But how? And then we cut to, and again, this is a very smart, efficient cut. They just immediately start reviewing security footage, which again, just clips from Star Trek II.

They didn't even go get the master and pretend it was a security camera. They literally just give you Star Trek, the end of Star Trek II again.

Yes, yes. But hey, it works.

World's best edited and scored security tape, that's for damn sure.

And then we get, and they see for the first time, the mind-meld from Spock to McCoy and remember.

Yes.

And Serac then has this great line of, he's like, one alive, one not, both in pain.

So good. Here's the thing, we love Star Trek, obviously, right? I mean, we love Star Trek and this is a great Star Trek movie, and it makes me a little bit sad that like, this is for us, this is for the Trekkies, this is for the fans, we're the ones who can see all of this. And ordinary, the lay person might watch this movie and sort of not really experience that, but this is such a feast for those of us who love this franchise.

And then also, like, perfectly at almost exactly the 30 minute mark, we end act one with the quest.

Yes.

The search for Spock, perhaps. Yes, exactly. Because Kirk then asks Serak, what must I do? He basically says, you have to go get McCoy and you're going to have to return him to Mount Soleil so that they can both find peace. And Kirk ends the scene, again, in classic heroic hornblower, I will, I swear it. Now, Paul, let me, Paul. And just boom, end of act one. It's just like a perfect end of act one.

Yeah, and Kirk already knows that the torpedo soft landed on the Genesis planet, right? Or is that revealed later to him?

I don't think he does.

I don't think he, but I can't remember where he's told.

There's no way he could.

Yeah, no, he can't. So he just wants to go back to Genesis to.

To just, just to see. Just in case.

To explore, yeah.

He has a feeling. I think he just has, like, yeah.

So he wants to go, because then he goes to Admiral, well, what's the next scene, actually?

Yes, so then, well, then we get back on Genesis, Savick and David beam down, they find the torpedo tube casket with these creepy, crawly slugs that are hyper-evolved, rapidly-evolved microbes.

The microbes that are on the torpedo, yeah.

Yeah, and David is kind of going like, because Savick's like, how is that possible?

And he's like, oh, nothing, don't look over here, we're fine, we're fine, the Genesis Wave is working perfectly, we're good.

David, with startling lack of apprehension or reverence, just very casually opens Spock's casket, and it's empty, except for Spock's burial room, which is, again, dun-dun-dun. Then there's an earthquake, because freaky shit is happening, the planet's unstable, as we're going to find out, and they hear screaming in the distance, dun-dun-dun. So now we're back on Earth. Kirk is having drinks at a bar, at a Starfleet lounge, a Starfleet lounge or something, with Admiral Morrow making his case as far as why he should be allowed to return to Genesis, but Morrow is just like, you're cuckoo crazy.

It's also, yeah, it's a creaky hinge in the story, because he wants to go back to Genesis and kind of look, but he knows he's got McCoy. So the mission isn't to take McCoy back to Vulcan, it's for some reason he wants to go back to Genesis to explore.

Yes. They're unanswered questions as far as what's going on.

Exactly.

Then there's this great exchange where, a great look on Kirk's face as Morrow denies him, he's made his case, he's not going to get a yes out of him, and Morrow is warning him that why would you even do this? You would lose everything.

He says, your life is about reason and about command. I don't understand Vulcan mysticism, but you keep following this Vulcan hoodoo voodoo. You're going to get in real trouble, Kirk. It's not what you're about.

As we're seeing this, we're on Kirk, we're on Shatner who's looking away, and it's already, you can tell, it's already plotting like, okay, fine. He's saying no, but I'm going to, how am I going to, what are we going to do anyway? How am I going to make this work? And then he comes back into the conversation and he's like, I hear you. And he just kind of plays it off. He's like, you know, I just had to try.

Sorry.

And answer blah, blah. He goes, and then he goes to the elevator and waiting for him are Sulu and Chekhov. And they're like, Sulu's like, the word, sir?

The word is no. He's like, I'm there for going anyway.

Exactly. And then they're like, oh, you can count on our help. And he's like, I'll need it. And then we get one of the greatest moments, I mean, DeForest Kelly. Oh, my God.

This is his movie. This is really, and it's Shatner's movie. All Star Trek movies are Shatner's movie. But really, this is like McCoy. And he has all, you know, he has so many big emotional moments and it's kind of amazing, you know.

And he's such a great actor.

He really is. I love that man. I really do. And he's always been the beating heart of Star Trek for me. You know, he's the human heart of this franchise, you know.

Yeah. And we find him in this just freaky 80s space bar on Earth, where there are tribbles on a table, there are some comebacks, aliens.

It's such a Star Wars cantina, but done with like two cents and like a cigarette, you know.

Yeah, it's clearly, clearly a send up of the Star Wars cantina. And then this really, and there's this really cheesy little holographic holographic game with the, with the, with the, with the, like World War I, like by plane fighters. Yeah, it's just, it's so hilarious. And this waitress who is in space bar waitress.

Yeah, she looks like a costume waitress. She's like space Vegas, you know, yeah. This whole scene reminds me of the Buck Rogers TV show with Gil Gerard. I mean, it's so like cheesy and so like.

It does have that vibe and feeling.

And like they just went to the prop warehouse and the costume warehouse and you know, did it all with crap off the shelf, you know.

Yes. And she is very happy to see McCord because apparently this is one of his haunts. He's a long time regular but hasn't been there obviously for a while. She's like long time no see doc, whatever, blah, blah. And she asked like, what's your poison? And then he responds.

To order poison in a bar would be illogical.

Like his brain's a scramble and the way he's playing this is so good. Then we get the version of the Mos Eisley scene of trying to hire a pilot and a ship because McCoy has his compulsion. He's got to get back.

He's going to get back to Genesis no matter what on his own. He's acting on his own.

Yeah. The weirdest alien.

Who speaks backwards like Yoda but not really.

Yeah.

He's got like caterpillars sticking out of his forehead. He's like, oh.

And he has like safety pins in his ears. Well, it's weird shit. And it's such a weirdo scene. And but it's so funny because Kelly is brilliant. And we get a lot of damn it's and like a lot of great classic McCoy exasperation.

But then McCoy starts telling the guy like, I want to go to Genesis. The name of the place is Genesis.

You know, it builds to that. And that's the thing I love. The scene is this great buildup of frustration and exasperation because because McCoy takes everything literally.

It's Spock's literalism and McCoy's exasperation.

Yes.

In one cocktail of not greatness.

Because this like Casablanca mystery figure, who's this weirdo alien, is trying to kind of play it cool and speak in code and be like, so where are you going? Everything has a price, whatever. But I need to know what available ship stands by.

Yeah.

And then he's like, well, McCoy's like somewhere in the mutara sector. And he's like, oh, mutara, that'll take many permits, many. And McCoy's like, there aren't going to be any damn permits. How can there be permits to do a damn illegal thing? Like he's just, he has no patience for the spy craft or whatever. And then finally he's like, Genesis, Genesis, how can you be deaf with ears like that? But sitting in the booth next, and we see him in the entrance of the scene. It's established that there's this like very conspicuous human civilian person there.

And he's got that Starfleet black actor porn stash that we saw in Adam Amaro. So you know he's serious.

It's clearly Starfleet intelligence has put a tail on McCoy to keep tabs on him. And he steps in and basically is like, I think you need to settle down about your speaker.

Your voice is carrying about Genesis, Mr. McCoy.

And McCoy, he just goes off on him. And then he actually tries to do the Vulcan neck pinch on him, which kills me.

It's so funny.

Because it doesn't work.

He keeps trying to do it again, trying to find another spot.

And the security guy is just like, what are you doing? And is like, you're going to get a nice long rest now. And they, you know, it's set up that then they take him away into custody.

And now the movie goes from being, you know, quasi-fantasy with the Vulcan mysticism, you know, a mystery about what the hell is going to McCoy and all that. And now we are in Butch Cassidy in this one. Now it's Ocean's Eleven.

Yes, yes, we get a brief cutaway back to Genesis as Savik and David are tracking this mystery life form and footsteps, whatever. But then we get arguably the greatest sequence in all of Star Trek history.

Oh my God, I love this so much.

Which is Stealing the Enterprise. And it starts before the music track title that starts, which is Kirk visiting McCoy in his cell, waking him up and...

Offering him a shot of Lexarine because he's suffering from a Vulcan mind meld.

And it's so perfect because McCoy wakes up as like Jim and Kirk is, how many fingers am I holding up?

And he does the Vulcan salute.

And so he's fucking with him and McCoy is like, that's pretty damn funny.

That's not very damn funny.

Not very damn funny. And there's just this great, perfectly character exchange.

Again, it's just watching these two guys, you know, they're both in their late fifties. They've been doing this for 25 years now. And you can just see that, you know, look, it's like, again, the Ghostbusters, it's who they're playing in the movie, but it's also, they've been friends forever. So the actors know each other and whether they get along or not, doesn't matter. They know their rhythm, you know?

And for fans, they have been our friends. And so to see them in this predicament, we have not seen them in before. And having each other's back, being there for them. Like we would want to be there for them if we only could. And this scene ends with a perfectly great punchline. Because as Kirk reveals to him, you're suffering from a Vulcan mind mill, doctor. McCoy says, that green blood and son of a bitch.

It's his revenge for all those arguments he lost.

So brilliant.

Yeah, it's the best.

It's just perfect. Meanwhile, then in the lobby of the holding cell, Sulu arrives in his most badass outfit.

Oh my God, he's got like a cape of some sort. Like he's wearing some sort of a leather cape. I mean, it's phenomenal.

It is the coolest. I want to be as cool as Sulu is in this movie. And he kind of basically poses as Starfleet Intelligence as like he's there looking for Admiral Kirk. He's needed, whatever. And they're like, okay, we'll go get him, whatever.

Because he's two security guards who are just meatballs. They're just balls of meat, you know.

And then the big meatball, Sulu like chit chats and is like, you know, keeping you busy. And then he stands up, towers over him, and says, don't get smart, tiny. Like he's probably back talking this intelligence officer who ranks him, which takes a lot of guts. Anyway, then they proceed to break McCoy out.

By the way, this scene to me is very indicative of the greatest thing about this movie and the worst thing about this movie. Okay, and it's like the script reads like it was written in 1930s New Seas slang. You know, don't get smart, tiny, you know? And it's not a particularly whittier, interesting insult, but it's like, again, the way that the actors are playing the characters with just the amount of lived-inness that they have, it makes a lot of this work, you know?

Yeah, it's just like, let's have some fun.

So anyway, so they break McCoy out of jail.

They break him out. They make it, the three of them make it into a turbolift just as other security officers get in. And then as one of Horner's greatest music cues starts, Kirk lifts, opens his communicator and says the Kobayashi Maru has set sail for the promised land.

There's one quote we don't have here, which is that, by the way, Sulu, as they're escaping, grabs the big security guard and literally tosses him over, you know, like in a big karate thing. And then he says, my favorite line in the movie, don't call me tiny.

It's so good. It's so, so good. Like, and at this moment-

And the Kobayashi Maru is setting sail for the promised land. And it's-

The film now shifts into a new gear. And it's like, oh my God, this is gonna be cool.

And it's interesting because this is both a great thing and a problem with this movie. Its most stirring set piece is halfway through the movie. And I don't know that the movie ever truly completely recovers from this being such a good set piece, you know? So it feels like there's a lot of Dano Moff to that. But Horner is the great recycler, okay? His Klingon theme here is the theme from Aliens. It's Khan's theme. It's also of the Malmori. What's his name? Sador of the Malmori's theme from Battle Beyond the Stars, right? But it is the Genesis Countdown, but it's so well kind of adapted to the sequence. It's wonderful. It's wonderful.

Yes.

And so they get back. So now Uhura.

Well, first we get a brief cut away to the Excelsior.

Oh, yes.

Where Scotty is now serving, much to his frustration.

He hates this shit so much.

He's like, what is all this shit? And he has to make pleasantries with Captain Styles, who is just a full of himself buffoon. He has a swagger stick.

He literally has, like, I mean, these are things. They used to have them for British officers. It's literally a stick that's designed to put under your arm. So when you walk, you swagger.

Yeah. Yeah.

He's got his high tech swagger stick. I love that.

And it doesn't do anything. It's got little buttons and lights. But like, what is it for? It's like a fidget.

It's like he's got ADHD, you know?

It's so bizarre. And then Scotty goes into the turbolift. And in a moment that is more timely now than ever, he has this interchange with this overly friendly ship's AI, ship computer, that he finally just can't stand. And he just says, up your shaft, which is just the delivery. And this is classic.

You know, there is a transition in this movie to kind of the Scotty, you know, like the supporting characters, you know, were never given too much to do before this. But in this movie, they're kind of antique and funny in a way that kind of carries through through four and then five and then especially six. You know, like you're beginning to see some real kind of like antique comedic energy between these characters. It's a lot of fun to watch them develop, you know, belatedly, you know.

Yeah, yeah. We're seeing them come to life in this film in a way we haven't seen before.

Now let's get to Uhura. Let's get to Uhura, because this is just magical.

And this is maybe one of the greatest scenes in all of Star Trek. And it is a one-act play.

Yes.

And I remember reading and hearing an interview with Nichelle Nichols that when she first got the script for Star Trek III, she was so offended and didn't want to do it because she just looked to see how many scenes she was in. And she's like, I have nothing to do. I like vanished for most of the film. And then I think Harb Beneter Nimoy says, Nichelle, read your scene. And then she goes back and is like, trust me. And then she reads this scene and it is the biggest gift her character has ever been given, ever will be given. And I love it so much.

She's great. And she plays the shit out of it. She's so good.

And again, this plot has been put in motion. This is a heist movie.

It is a heist movie.

In the middle of the movie.

And she has been reassigned to like a shit transporter station in the middle of nowhere, right?

She has seemingly inexplicably taken this ass-end of the universe assignment into this random transporter room.

Wonder why she would want to take an assignment to a random transporter room no one looks at.

It's on Earth. It's Starfleet. And there is this young, arrogant...

Mr. Excitement.

Mr. Adventure. Mr. Adventure, up-and-coming Starfleet officer who has these aspirations towards grand adventure.

And he's kind of an asshole to her.

He's a total asshole.

This place is fine for someone like you, whose career is winding down, you know?

Yes. And then the look she gives him, like there's so much she does with this scene. With just looks and nuance and the intonations of everything, how she's playing it super cool, because she knows what's coming.

And also, they give her, by the way, they give her this semi-mini skirt that's kind of slitted quite high up. She's got these amazing heels on.

Black leather.

Her hair has never looked better in all of Star Trek. I mean, she looks...

Her hair, makeup, everything, she looks spectacular.

I mean, you could put her in a room with Tina Turner from Thunderdome and I would bet on Uhura, okay? Like that's all I'm saying.

So she she is the coolest like ever.

Oh, she's so good. And then we get the scene we opened with, which is, you know...

And then after this little intro, this little prologue skit of her and this young asshole, and she is just letting it play, letting this guy just, you know, like, whatever.

Dig his own grave.

Then we hear the familiar whoosh of doors partying and who enters...

It's Admiral, it's Admiral, it's the Admiral, yeah. So look, now, Hura has put the guy in his place. She's gonna meet us in Vulcan. She's gonna get Sarek and meet us in Vulcan. And everybody's now in the Enterprise, and the Enterprise has been automated. So Kirk could run it with, you know, two chimpanzees and a trainee. And then we get clip number two, which is so stirring. Producer Brad, give us clip number two, please. Let's hear it.

My friends, I can't ask you to go any further. Dr. McCoy and I have to do this. The rest of you do not. Admiral, we're losing precious time.

What course, please, Admiral?

Mr. Scott? I'd be grateful, Admiral, if you'd give the word. By the wind, be on our backs.

You know-

And again, Horner knows to perfectly put the little bit of the classic Trek theme underneath that.

The little hornblower, you know, like-

And it just stirs that it's like, this might be the final mission of this crew, because they're putting everything on the line-

To get Spock, it's great.

For their friend, and it's just-

Paul, it's amazing because, look, so there's been 79 hours of the original series at this point. There's been 15 episodes of the animated show, Star Trek The Motion Picture, Star Trek II, right? I never felt like these characters had inter-person- And it's something that, you know, it's interesting. I think that the thrust of Star Trek II is so military and so kind of like cut and dry and very like operatic, and it's really a movie about Kirk, you know, and a little bit with his relationship with Spock, but everybody else is kind of in the background. And same with Star Trek The Motion Picture. Paul, you know, this is the second time in the summer of 84 that something you've said has really enhanced my perception of a film script. And I think that, you know, what Nicholas Meyer did for Star Trek in terms of military credibility, Harv Bennett and Leonard Nimoy are doing for interpersonal relationship in this movie, you know, and even though I feel very strongly that this movie is kind of a junky, low-budget affair, I think that we are, you know, this is a really important script in Star Trek lore because it really does open this up in a way that, unless you're reading the novels or something, you are not seeing these relationships this way, you know, and this is just really great. So there you go.

And I feel like this is something, especially for the, it's a rare instance where there is a franchise at this point involving an ensemble that has endured for decades, that has accumulated so much investment from its audience, that has been hungry for this added depth and dimension, of familiarity and of richness, that it, it lands just so well.

And I think it's one of the reasons why Star Trek IV works so well, too, is that, you know, we've had this movie to kind of deepen the grooves. So when you see them having their adventure, the very comedic adventures on Earth later on in time travel, like, like you buy them because you've had this experience of trauma with them and you've bonded with them in a way that the series only kind of left up to your imagination in a lot of ways, you know?

Yes, to fill in the gaps about like, oh, what are they like, you know, the stuff that we don't see. Unfortunately, Star Trek IV ruined for me by the score that sounds like Christmas music.

I call that score Star Trek Celebration.

Yes, but as soon as they start moving the Enterprise, they get a call from Starfleet Command ordering them to surrender the vessel. We then get, and I don't think we need the clip.

No, I want the clip. I want the clip. I want the clip because look, Stiles, I, look, I get it. Stiles is a prick, but for some reason I love him. I don't know why because I always, you know, like, but anyway, so Stiles is in the Excelsior and Stiles is the most stuck-up.

He's lounging. He's like taking a nap. He's bumping his nails.

And we get clip number five.

Bridge, this is the captain. How can you have a yellow alert in space doc? Sir, someone is stealing the Enterprise. I'm on my way.

And I love this because it's like the grownups are coming to the room now, you know?

Yeah.

And so now, here's the problem. Space doc has these giant gates and they're closed.

Yes, that make no sense.

Also, there is a ship that is more than a match for us. It has transwarp drive. It's brand new and our ship is battered and beaten, right? Yes. And that ship is being captained by the most humorless Martinet in Starfleet.

And presumably full crew compliment.

Yes. And Stiles, because Stiles is a man of bureaucracy and a humorless Martinet, he gives us clip number three, which is the dire warning about what's at stake here.

No, no, no. We're not there yet. Oh, you're jumping ahead.

Oh, I'm just trying to get into it. Okay, so go on, go on, go on.

All right, that's the punchline. That's the finale.

Okay, let's go.

So then we get this incredibly effective comedic suspense sequence of The Heist.

Yes.

Because they're in this contained chasm of Space Dog approaching inexorably, inevitably these giant, like, vault-like, massive doors that make no sense in the universe.

No goddamn sense whatsoever.

Who cares? You know, whatever. Maybe there was some asteroid attack or something on Earth. They built this, but I don't know. I don't know why. It makes no sense. But we have this inner cutting of interior to exterior of these models moving. There are bits that make no sense because they both chips are ordered to one-quarter impulse power in Space Dog, which would immediately, like, collide them with the walls like you're in maneuvering thrusters in Space Dog. I'm sorry. That doesn't make any sense.

You know, I want to throw something in here before, because before we continue with the plot, because we do have to get through this. But Paul, you know, the VFX shots in this movie that are brand-new shots are very uneven in quality. You know, this movie feels like it was a rush job, and they didn't, some of the shots, they didn't rotoscope all the matte lines out or maybe get the motion control right. You know what I'm saying? This sequence in Space Dog is where they put all their money and imagination. It is so good. You can totally, I mean, you get a sense of the scope of this interior space. It's wonderful. I mean, this is where ILM put their juice into it.

And the score, the sound design, the editing in particular, it's masterful. And the way it ramps up the suspense, but also with the comedy as they are counting down how close they are to space doors. Scottie is being the hacker.

He's like literally on a keyboard trying to hack into the door to open it up.

Yeah. And their little exchanges like McCoy is like, are you just going to walk through them? And Kirk is like, calm yourself, doctor. Like they plan this. And then it's like one minute of space doors over and the red alert is going on. The Excelsior is closing. It's so good. And then there's this great moment where McCoy is leaning over Scotty's shoulder and he says, and they're getting really close to the space door. It's like, well, they're going to collide. And he says, and now. And Scotty's like, sir. He's like, the door, Scotty. The door. He's like, I'm working on it. I'm working on it. And it's so great. And it's antique and it's funny and it's ridiculous, but it works. And finally, at the course, the last possible moment, Scotty overrides the security, the doors open and the enterprise almost scrapes through to escape. And then there's this triumphant swell, the score and enterprise then speeds up and then banks beautifully around it as the Excelsior comes out of the doors, pursuing it. So it's so good. Like Jaws, like, it's, yeah. The menace of like, holy shit. Like they are so fucked against this thing. Again, as transworld drivers, like all this thing is like, they're screwed and they're readying a tractor beam. But then we get.

Then we get the quote.

The exchange as Stiles then hits the com.

And threatens Kirk.

To call Kirk.

Yep.

Kirk, you do this, you'll never sit in the captain's chair again. Warp speed.

This is the first time we ever saw like them hitting warp speed, like in the middle of like a situation. Like it's not just, it's like, you know, this is like when they flew away from the Genesis device. It's wonderful. It's, they literally warp out of like the start.

It's great.

I can't even, I'm having a moment.

And it's also so good is there's that pause, that perfect beat from Stiles' line, the threat, the warning, and Kirk just cold and steely takes the opportunity to get in, he accepts his fate, and unblinkingly says warp speed. It's just like, that's what we want from Star Trek.

And here's the thing. Stiles is not a likable character, you know, he's this kind of stuck up little dude, you know?

Yeah, he's a bit of a character.

But you get the sense that he, but you know, he's not an incompetent, you know? I mean, I don't get the sense that he's, so then he's like gonna, you know, he's gonna grab him. He is so smug.

He's ready. He's also been just dying to take this out for us. Oh, yes. Because he knows he's got the hottest thing in Starfleet.

At one point he goes, Magnificent Machine, yes. You know, he's like, get ready for Transwarp Drive, Magnificent Machine. And like, and then the Excelsior bridge is so cool. It's all glass. It's different from the Enterprise.

The bridge.

The toggle switches.

It's got this super high-tech bridge, except for the typography on the screen.

Well, the computer graphics in this movie are Atari 2600 all the way, my friend. But the great thing is like, Miguel Ferrer, by the way, the great Miguel Ferrer playing the helmsman. Miguel Ferrer, one of the great character actors of all time, half Puerto Rican, son of Jose Ferrer. I mean, holy crap, I love Miguel Ferrer. He's the smug lieutenant, you know? And then like, their seats have these weird seat belts because the transwarp drive is so new and exciting that their large armrests just come up and wrap around them. And it's like, and then there's drums playing and it's like transwarp drive is coming.

Yeah, something we've never seen before.

What the hell? What the hell? It's transwarp, man. It's like, no. And then, Stiles gives the order and the Excelsior just craps the fuck out.

It's just literally. And this is a moment where it's like, is this too cartoony? Because it literally sputters out like a stalled car engine.

Which in space makes no goddamn sense.

It makes no sense. And then it also slows down, which makes no sense.

Please stop while I'm suddenly making Model T sounds. Oh my God.

But it's pretty damn funny. It annoyed me more in my youth. Now I'm go with it. And I'm just like, this is just...

Dude, it's like the Ewoks, man. It's like when we were teenagers, it was like, we were such edgelords. We all hated the Ewoks, blah, blah, blah. And now we're just like, oh, we get this so good. This makes me happy and comfortable. But okay, here's a question. Now, when Stiles goes up to Miguel Ferrer to see what the hell happened with the ship, and he looks at the screen and all of the Atari 2600 graphics showing the warp functions fizzle out, and you get the words, good morning, captain.

Yes.

Now, Paul, here's my question. This question has bedeviled me for decades.

Really?

Is that an Easter egg for Captain Kangaroo?

No.

Are you sure? Because the first line from Captain Kangaroo in the song was, good morning, captain. Really?

No.

No, Brad, producer Brad, you want to break the tie?

I will research. I don't know.

That makes it wittier to me. I don't know. But anyway, let's keep going.

To me, it's an extension of the overly-friendly ship computer that drove Scotty crazy. It's just this insipidly, overly-

I think Harv Bennett's kids were watching Captain Kangaroo. That's all I have to say about any of this.

Maybe. But then we cut back to the bridge.

Yeah, to the Enterprise.

And they're underway. They've escaped the clutches and Scotty reveals and two McCoys. I got from one surgeon to another.

The chips he took out of the computer.

I took these out of the Excelsior's main computer. The more they overtake the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain, which is great.

Oh, so good.

Yeah, it's just, and then it's like on the way to Genesis.

Okay, real quick. Captain Kangaroo did have a stick, like the swagger stick.

Really?

And also, what's this actor's name, James Psyking?

James Psyking, yeah.

He was also in Hill Street Blues and all, he carried a baton.

Oh. Yes, that I think was a callback to his Hill Street Blues character.

Interesting. Now, Paul, but here's the thing. Now we've had this big victory, but the darkness is gathering around this film because...

Yes. There is a, meanwhile on Genesis, a snowstorm has hit and we find a naked, shivering child, Vulcan child. Whom we quickly realize is Spock regenerated. And the Genesis wave has regenerated him. Savik then calls up to Captain Esteban to report this. And they all like freak out because they're like, what the what? Because you've got a living Spock down there.

What the hell?

Yeah. And they're like, please beam us up. And he's like, hold on. Like, we don't know if he's...

Maybe he's radioactive.

As a precaution. And I'm like, they're freezing in a snowstorm. Beam them up. But thank God that he doesn't beam them up. And of course the plot demands he cannot beam them up yet because right then the Bird of Prey de-cloaks and...

It just kills the shit out of the group. Yeah, no. Crews just target the engines and went hostages. And Torg, no, not Torg, it's the other...

Yeah, not Multiplex, it's the other guy.

The Gunner, the Gunner then proceeds to spectacularly blow up the Grissom. It's a great explosion.

Poor one out for JT Esteban, man.

It's one of those explosions that like explodes and keeps exploding. Like it explodes and explodes on top of itself.

It's like that TIE fighter in Return of the Jedi. In The Unheard of Hope, yeah, it's absolutely...

And Crews is pissed and he's like, I wanted prisoners and he just instantly pulls his Klingon Disruptor out and just kills his gunner.

And by the way, so this is, you know, because I was a behind the scenes kid, the way they did the effect of the gunner dying. Okay, do you know how they did that?

Probably, but I forgot.

So basically they composited into the disintegration of the guy. It was they basically set a Brillo pad on fire to create that texture in the middle inside of him. It's so analog and awesome, you know?

Yeah, it's great. It's very, very satisfying. Still, this movie is PG. Then, the Enterprise is in route. There's a really nice moment where Kirk requests an approach scan and McCoy.

We hear Spock's voice and then we all have our names over and it's McCoy.

Yes, speaks in Spock's voice that indications are negative. And then we cut to McCoy and he's like, did I do it right? And it's a really touching moment. Then Cruz and company are on Genesis.

We all arrive pretty much not at the same time because the Grissom has been destroyed. Kirk is trying to get Captain Esteban, he can't get him on the line. And when we get there, we start seeing this weird distortion in space.

Well, we're not there yet. I'm sorry. And we also, the Enterprise intercepts a signal from Starfleet Command trying to reach the Grissom. There's no response. So Kirk's like, not sure what to make of that. So he's like, send my greetings or whatever.

This is an interesting sequence because basically, it's a lot like the approach of the Reliant and the Wrath of Khan. We are going into a situation, there's another ship there, we don't know what it is.

Yes.

You know, we think we're going toward a federation ship, but we can't race that federation ship. And the two parties are just getting closer and extra bit closer together. But Kirk is at a disadvantage because he doesn't know that there's an antagonist there. It's very similar, but it's done really well here, too.

Yes. And also, they do not know Spock's alive. They're thinking they might have a chance to recover his body. But that's it. But meanwhile, Savick, David, and Spock have made camp. Then we get the reveal exposition, and Savick is like, this planet's not what you intended.

This is, by the way, I hate this part of it. This is the one part of this movie that I really disagree with.

It's a little janky.

David confesses that he basically used a thing of proto-matter, which is like illegal and blah, blah, blah, but he needed it.

As a shortcut.

Yeah, and then Savick basically reads him the riot act of like, how many people had to die because of your shortcut? And it's kind of like, whoa, Savick, you see their chiefs. What the fuck? But it makes me, look, I like David, and I really like the actor who played him, and I have a soft spot for his tragic story, as so many actors, gay actors of the 80s who died of AIDS before they could have their career and all that, but I really like David as a character in Star Trek II. He was tough, he was kind of like, he didn't take Kirk's shit, and Kirk had to kind of earn his respect, and I really dug that, and to now make him sort of a guy who takes shortcuts and couldn't make it work, eh, you know, it just kind of made, upset me.

I mean, David and Savick are different characters fundamentally in Star Trek III than they were in Star Trek II. There's just kind of no way around that, and that is a frustration, and it's like, okay, I guess to make this film and story work, they had to be pivoted a little bit, but it is somewhat jarring. And it's more jarring with Savick because it's a different change of actor, but it's also jarring with David because it does seem to go against the character of the horror scientist, the moral ethical scientist established in Star Trek II that it seems out of character that he would have done this, but it's necessary. Savick also foreshadows in her lambasting of him and what is yet to come, which is not going to be good. Cruise and the Klingons are on the trail. They find the casket for the torpedo tube. Now, those little slugs are giant worms, like dead worms, and Cruise wrestles one, and it's this hilarious puppet sequence where this thing is trying to choke them. It's so cheap. It's very B-movie, but it's funny. Night falls quickly, the planet is starting to get crazier. As this kid, Spock, and we're told the planet is now aging in surges, and Spock with it.

Yeah, so Spock is where the Genesis wave... Here comes the science, Paul.

The pseudoscience.

Yeah. As long as Spock is on the planet where the Genesis wave is active, he will continue to surge in his age, like the planet is basically rapidly evolving into its own oblivion. That's the premise. Yeah, okay.

And, as Savick says, it's going to be harder even on Spock...

Because the Bonfire is coming...

.because Bonfire is coming. Dun, dun, dun. We know what that is. David does not know what that is.

The burning of his Vulcan blood when he makes...

They scan that the Klingons are approaching...

So they have to time their exit from the planet so Spock is the right age, as he was at the end of Star Trek II?

Well, I don't know if they have to time it, but that's kind of how it times out anyway.

Yes. I mean, ideally, and very conveniently...

It worked out pretty well, except for the ship being destroyed and them being fugitives and all of that. It worked out perfectly.

Yes. So the Klingons are on their trail, and Savik is like, I'll go to try to take them out with a phaser. And Savik, trained Starfleet officer, clearly equipped and half Vulcan, half Romulan. So I'm like, I bet she could probably take those Klingons out.

And instead David goes...

But stupidly, but necessary for the plot, David, again, kind of like it's a gender thing too, he's like, no, you stay with Spock, give me your phaser. Who knows if David has ever held a phaser before?

The guy from Star Trek II is not that guy.

No, this makes no sense. And he's like, I'll go. And we're like, he's fucked. We're all now.

But by the way, if he were the character from Star Trek II, the guy who tackled Kirk with a scalpel, that guy, I believe, would go face on some Klingons. I don't know that this guy could, you know?

He would have the courage, but he would not have the capability.

Yeah, no, absolutely.

Or the training. Back on the Enterprise...

This is now we're starting to see, we're starting to see that something's really wrong and we're starting to see that weird...

Yes, and there's a nice Kirk McCoy exchange where Kirk's like, how are we doing? And he's like, I feel safe for giving him one of my kidneys than what's scrambled in my brain. It was like little things like that. And I just love on Genesis, then we get the erotic Vulcan finger touching scene.

Oh, this is so cringe. Oh my God. Like, she basically mates with him, kind of, but it's like psychic with the Vulcan. Oh, it's so cringe.

And we don't know what happens.

And I don't want to know what happens.

I don't care. Yeah, you're fine.

And then David, David shows up and he's been bludgeoned.

Yeah, so then we get the setup for the showdown as the Enterprise enters the sector, the Bird of Prey scans it, cloaks before the Enterprise notices it. And then like Sulu and Chekov are like, I swear there was something on the, you know, there's all this like setup for the showdown. Back on Genesis, it's morning, sunrise. Who knows what Savik and Teen Spock have done? They are awoken by Klingons.

Yes, who have taken David hostage.

Who have captured David and now have all of them a prisoner. And Kruge is disappointed by the caliber of prisoners that he thought he was gonna get these top scientists to reveal the creatures.

Instead, he's got a boy, a weakling, and a Vulcan, yeah.

And his Vulcan, and a woman, like, yes. And I'm like, dude, you're like, and Valk, anyway, don't, anyway. But David and Savik are trying to convince him that Genesis is a failure. Yeah.

But he still sees it as a structure, he sees a weapon.

But he's like, no, it's still the greatest destructive force ever created to him, it's like, it's a huge success. And they basically refuse to give him give up Genesis' secrets.

Krug keeps saying, I want the secret to Genesis, but it's like, there's not like a hard drive, there's no MacGuffin.

He thinks there is, because he's dumb.

Yeah.

But he thinks that they have like the actual formula.

I have a backstory for Krug that he's the sort of older Klingon officer who got passed over a billion times. He's really bitter and angry and he's a real sort of, you know, angry warmonger. And he like literally got busted down to the scout ship, even though he's like one of the he's probably one of the oldest Klingons I've ever seen, you know, and he's going renegade to do this mission to try to get his honor back. I mean, that's kind of my backstory for him.

Or to like elevate his place in the Empire. Yeah. Yeah. He's clearly out for a big prize.

A guy this age should not be commanding a scout ship. He should be commanding like a D7. So this guy got demoted someplace and he's trying to get it back. That's all I have to say.

Sure. But anyway, they refuse to give up anything and he says, a great reading, then I hope pain is something you enjoy. But then he's interrupted by, he's alerted that the Enterprise has entered orbit, I think, and he beams up, and then because they're monitoring the Enterprise's hails, and Savick and David hear Kirk's voice from that monitoring, and they exchange a great look.

I love David's look because he's like, yeah, daddy's coming to fuck some shit up now, Yes.

So they think, aha, the cavalry's here, they're, because they think it's Kirk and the Enterprise, and the whole crew of the Enterprise.

For realsies, it's the flagship of the Federation, yeah.

In full power and not this ragtag-damaged, with an automated ship, stolen, automated Enterprise, run by five people.

Yeah.

Cruz is then stalking the Enterprise while cloaked as he keeps getting closer. And the score, again, Horner's score here is great, building the suspense, the tension. As they're getting closer and closer, Cruz is patiently waiting. And, but Sulu thinks he sees something, there's a distortion and Kirk and he figure it out and deduce it's probably a cloaking device. Then this whole sequence-

That they have to decloak before firing, because we know that.

Yeah, it's so beautifully intercut and Kirk wagers, yes, that they'll have to decloak before they fire. They prepare, the Bird of Prey decloaks. It's a great sequence, the Enterprise fires, full-time torpedoes.

Gets the shit out of the Bird of Prey. The Bird of Prey is really like incapacitated here.

It sends it reeling, sparks everywhere, but then the Enterprise's shields fail. The automation system is like wonky. The Bird of Prey makes its turn back around.

And Cruise manages to get some shots out, yeah.

And then takes out the automation system for the Enterprise, and the Enterprise is a sitting duck. And we have the iconic, I had this poster on my wall.

The Enterprise and the Bird of Prey facing each other, yeah.

Of these two beautiful ILM models, at least one is an ILM model, of the Enterprise inherited from previous. And it's a great shot, and there's this suspense because-

They're just standing there looking at each other like, what's going to happen?

They're bluffing, and Cruise is like, why haven't they finished us? They had gunned us 10 to 1. And John Larroquette, Maltz, is surprised to report the enemy commander wishes to confer.

For a truce. He wants a truce to confer, yes.

Not a truce, but just to confer, I think. And Cruise is like, blah, blah, blah. And then Kirk bluffs the hell out of the situation.

And what's really interesting, but here's what I love about Krug in the scene. Krug says, this is your adversary. He doesn't identify himself. He's not going to give Kirk any respect, and he's not going to give him any information Kirk doesn't need.

Doesn't give him his name.

Nothing. Nothing.

Yeah.

And it's great because now you're starting to see, you know, Krug isn't Khan. Khan would have monologued the shit out of this, right? Krug is just like, I'm going to fuck you up. Let's go. You know, and this is where Krug says, I've got hostages.

Yes, because first, Kirk demands his surrender or he's going to blow him away, whatever, blah, blah, like fully bluffing. Krug calmly responds. And again, in this smaller ship.

Yeah.

But he's fearless.

Yeah.

And he has a sense that something is up and he demands Kirk surrender because he has prisoners on the planet below.

And then he says, and I'm going to kill you.

Well, Kirk is first like, he's like, who are you? And he's like, who I am is not important. That I have them is.

Yes. Which is the great, this is what redeems this character.

Makes him a great villain.

Because he doesn't tell you anything. He just, he's like, and there's a great line about that later on with Spock. Well, we'll get to it. But anyway.

So then he's allowed, he allows Kirk to speak to the prisoners, to also verify that he does indeed have prisoners.

And now Kirk realizes Spock is alive.

Yeah, Savick kind of lets him know.

A Vulcan scientist of your acquaintance.

Yes, he's not himself, but he lives.

Yes.

And David, again, living in his own bubble as a scientist, is just like, Genesis, does it work? I can't believe they'd kill us for it. Which is like, oh, you're so. And then, like, he's like, okay, Kirk, you've had a chance to kill the, just to talk to the prisoners. And just so you know, I'm serious. He orders a prisoner killed. He says, I don't care which one. And then one of the Klingons takes out his knife.

He starts stalking the three of them.

Yeah. From behind, making his choice, taking his time and stops behind the Klingons. And he's going to go to kill Savik from, stab her in the back. And David jumps in to save Savik.

Wants up getting stabbed in the heart.

And this death is awful.

Yeah. Yeah. It's awful. It actually is awful. It's not, yeah, it's not very artfully put together. And that kind of adds to how awful it is. Cause it's like, yeah, it's, yeah.

David is not equipped to fight a Klingon at all.

No.

And he is ruthlessly, brutally stabbed in the gut. Yeah. And probably eviscerated. And the sound that we hear him make as he's stabbed is just, that is not a PG sound.

And I hear you. I hear you.

That was traumatic for me to hear as a child.

That's a temple of doom sound. Yeah. That's a temple of doom sound.

Yeah. It is awful.

Yeah.

And then there's the silence and suspense and Kirk doesn't know what's happening and he's hearing. And then Savick is given, he's calling for David and Savick gets the communicator and just says David is dead. Isolately says David is dead. And then we get, I think, maybe Shatner's greatest performance is Kirk.

Agreed. Agreed.

He is speechless and he collapsed.

His knees buckle. All right. It's kind of amazing.

He misses the captain's chair.

Stumbles back. Yeah.

He stumbles back. He misses his own chair that he knows better than any place he's ever been.

That's right.

And he is completely unmoored and destabilized and collapses in every way. You can say someone collapses.

And he has this outburst. I mean, he shouts, You cling on, bastard.

You killed my son.

And he's weeping.

And it starts quietly as like he's speaking to the universe. He's speaking to this adversary he hasn't seen. He doesn't know his name. This unknown villain. And he just says it over and over again.

Until he's screaming it, you know?

You cling on, bastard. You killed my son. And it's so just devastating in his utter powerlessness, his impotence.

That's what's so interesting. It's sort of the first time. You know, we've seen Kirk in a bind. We've seen him Kobayashi Maru. We've seen all that, you know, but we've never seen him in a position where he just has nothing. He has nothing left.

He is defeated.

He's gone. Yeah. Yeah.

In a way.

And it's very emotional. It's very emotional.

Yeah. And in a way, even beyond than what we saw with Spock.

Yeah.

Losing him. And Krug, no sympathy.

Nope.

And he says, there are two more prisoners, Admiral. You want them killed too? Surrender your vessel. And then Kirk just summons enough to say, give me a minute to inform my crew. Still bluffing, still clinging to the bluff. And then Krug, to his doom, graciously honors his opponent by saying, I give you two minutes for your valiant crew.

Which is one minute more than Khan gave Kirk. You don't want to give Kirk more.

And Kirk uses that extra minute. If he hadn't been given it, this plot would not work.

And let me tell you something. What happens next is one of the greatest sequences in the history of Star Trek. And it is also a sequence that proves why you can only blow up the Enterprise once. Because they've blown up the Enterprise a hundred times now. It has no meaning anymore. But this is, and it's so well handled. So, I mean, Krug basically gets six of his men. He's got a dozen people in the ship. He's got two in the planet. So, he's literally got ten people. He gets six of them to go on board the Enterprise with weapons. They think they're going up against a hundred man crew in the Enterprise.

Yeah. A thousand man crew. But they're like, we're Klingons.

Yeah. And Kirk, Scotty, and Chekhov set off the cell phone.

But first, first, there is this long beat where Kirk is just silent. Yeah.

He's sitting with his back to the camera and McCoy is sort of, yeah.

Yeah. He's turned. He is sitting with his back to the camera.

And McCoy is like ministering to him. Yeah.

Yeah. McCoy is there consoling him. And and the crew is waiting. Like they are just waiting in this like suspenseful silence because we're like, we know they're screwed. Yeah. And Kirk has seconds to compartmentalize his grief and to figure out the Kobayashi Maru. How is he going to get out of this?

By the way, this is exactly the Kobayashi Maru.

Yes.

And this is the sequel to Star Trek II. And it is about Kirk finally actually facing the Kobayashi Maru.

Yes. But also this is foreshadowed by the beginning of the Stealing the Enterprise sequence when he says the Kobayashi Maru is heading to the Promised Land.

No, I mean, thematically, these movies are linked. They're a trilogy, you know.

Yeah. It's incredibly good. But then he turns back, summoning all his strength to become, put the mantle of Captain Kirk back on that's been stripped away. And he says, I swear to you, we're not dead yet.

Yep.

And he goes into action. He gives the orders. He sends McCoy.

Sends everybody to the transporter room.

He's going to join everybody there. With Sulu to the transporter room. And then he calls Sulu, Scottie with him to check up at the sign station. And he starts the destruct sequence. And they don't know. He hasn't told them. He hasn't warned them.

No, but yeah, they're shocked. Because they have to cosign, they have to cosign, yeah.

Exactly, but they know this is what they have to do and they trust their captain.

Yeah.

And it is chilling, but it is also thrilling.

And this sequence is heartbreaking. It is thrilling, but it's also hard. So the Klingons, so Kirk rushes back to the transporter room and he's energizing the beam. So they get beamed out to Genesis planet just as the Klingons come in. And then you have the sequence where the Klingons have boarded the Enterprise and they're running around the ship, like doing the SWAT team thing. There's nobody there.

Yeah.

They get to the bridge.

It's a ghost ship.

And Paul, how satisfying is it when Torg is like, you know, the bridge is empty and it seems to be run by a computer and there's a voice and it's the only thing speaking.

Yeah. It's just, it's so great. And here's the thing, like I, one of my pet peeves, as you know, is when the plot is predicated on the character being implausibly stupid. These Klingons are just stupid enough. Because the scenario is so implausible for them.

They should know they're hearing a countdown before they see it. But even though they don't know English or Stanford or whatever it is, that's my workaround is that they're actually speaking in Klingon and Krug is the only one who speaks English. That's my workaround on it.

Yes. Or Krug and Maltz, yeah. And Krug immediately is like, get out of there. Are you screaming, get out of there.

Oh my God, and then it's a great shot where Christopher Lloyd just shoots into the frame from his chair and he's like, get out of there. You can see his feelings.

Yes.

And again, he's totally miscast, but he sells it so well.

And then we get the most horrifying effect sequence that maybe ILM has ever done.

Yeah.

Which is the destruction of the enterprise as it self-destructs.

The first thing that blows up, you see some corridors blowing up, presumably engineering, but then you go to the bridge and you've got the standard Star Trek, the consoles blow up and like some dude hits a trampoline and vaults over the, over the navigation console, you know what I mean? Then they go outside and you literally see the bridge explode. You see that dome where we've been living in that dome for 79 episodes and three movies and it just shatters. And then, and I remember reading an interview with the ILM people who did this. They said they needed a shot of the words USS Enterprise disintegrating. So that you really felt the pain of the ships, the mines.

And seeing the skin burn away, the layers of the hull, the interior being exposed, it is not like one big like boom, like the prism explosion. It is this process of planted charges in sequence, incinerating and taking it apart, not blowing up the warp core, because it's too close to a planet. But it's so a nightmare to see this enterprise destroyed and then plummet into the atmosphere.

Look, Paul, I'm glad this is in a video podcast because literally for 30 years, I cannot, or however old this movie is, I can't watch this scene without crying.

Yeah.

Okay, and we're just, you know what, producer Brad, so they're all standing on an epic cliff and the enterprise, the saucer section, half of it blows away so it looks like this kind of half moon.

Yeah, and then the cells are burning.

And it goes into the atmosphere and it begins to burn. Our characters are, it's the most beautiful shot probably in the history of Star Trek.

Yeah.

They're all standing on this cliff watching the ship come in and make a comment and then give us clip number four, producer Brad. Oh my god.

My god, what have I done?

What you had to do, what you always do, turn death into a fighting chance to live.

Oh my god.

That's the movie.

You know, I saw this film with my mom who doesn't know fuck all about Star Trek, okay? And she just took me because her 14-year-old son wanted to see the Star Trek movie. And she had an emotional response when she saw this movie, and especially when she saw Scottie's face. Yeah. To have like, you know, literally a 40-something Puerto Rican woman who doesn't know anything about Star Trek go, oh, poor guy. I was like, oh, wow.

It's incredible. And also, like, just as a bold narrative swing.

Yeah.

And especially for a franchise to take this risk. But knowing that the filmmakers knowing how do we dramatically top the loss of Spock, but also how do we karmically earn getting Spock back.

Yeah, because it can't be easy. It can't be easy. Yeah, exactly.

There has to be some price in exchange that our characters and that we all pay in order to earn that and to make that math work. And it's not enough for Kirk to lose his son, David, because we only just met him in the last movie.

We met him in the last movie. We lose the thing that's most dear.

But it's such a great fake out that the film does, because you think, oh, my God, this is the worst thing that's going to happen is that, geez, they lost, he lost his son. Maybe the loose Savick, maybe, you know, is Spock going to survive, whatever? But then when this happened, and when we didn't know, and we saw this in a theater, and I saw it again, I was shaking. It was so just awful.

Because again, as you said, this is like Luke getting his hand cut off. Like you don't think it could happen.

Well, but it's so beyond that, because for so many of us who grew up on Star Trek, the Enterprise was the home of our imagination.

That's right. Absolutely.

And we're seeing it pulled out of the sky in flames.

And they did it so sadistically in the best way.

It's devious. It is genius, but it is devastating. And like, I am in awe of this moment in the film, but then also that this crew has to march on.

Yes.

Because they can't let that be in vain, and they are the enterprise.

And look, I think we talk about Star Trek II as being this big operatic tragedy, right? And I think that they benefited from having Nicholas Meyer, who had this very heightened sensibility in all of that. But the amount of tragedy and drama that happens in this film and how well it is portrayed by the actors and how satisfying it is, is really something. I mean, it really makes this movie very...

And how understated, and I think it can only be because of the depth of trust and connection that Shatner and Nimoy had, and as fellow actors who knew this, that Shatner reigns it in, in these moments where he's understated, he's not overdoing it. And that makes it so much more potent.

And I want to go on record that Shatner does all of this while wearing the puffy shirt. He's literally wearing a puffy shirt. It's like, it's got like cuffs and like they blouse out. It's pink. It's like, his shirt is kind of a light shade of lavender pink.

It's a lavender, I would say. And then he's got like a maroon.

He's got these weird burgundy pants that bunch up around his boots. So he looks kind of like he's wearing a sort of leprechaun cosplay, a leprechaun pirate cosplay. And he still sells all of this, which is phenomenal. So anyway.

Yeah, but immediately they have to like, Sulu scanning for life shots. They go and find as the planet is erupting in chaos.

Another planet. It's a terminal arc.

The planet is going to explode. Savick is there with Spock, who is aging in a kind of American werewolf in London, kind of prosthetic effect.

He's on the glide path to becoming Leonard Nimoy again.

Yeah. And Kirk and company arrive. He shoots one of the Klingon. He finds David's body, covers it with his jacket, and kind of has a moment as the crew watches. And Savick then tells him that he gave his life to save them.

Oh, but by the way, we also, there's a moment here, by the way, when they get the Klingon communicator, which is the next thing that happens, right?

Yes. Well, so first McCoy is like scanning Spock and he's like rapid aging. His mind's that of a boy, but it seems I've got all his marbles. I've got all his marbles.

Great line.

But they're like, but we have to, but Savick's like, we have to get them off the planet. They're aged, they're linked.

As long as the Genesis wave is hitting him, yeah.

Yeah. And so they have to get off the planet. So Kirk finds the Klingon commander. He calls Krooge to and says, and this is a great line, our ship was the victim of it. And Krooge is like, has his head in his hands.

By the way, also because we killed his dog, by the way. So he's lost his crew and his dog died in the initial exchange of fire.

So his crew is dead and his dog is dead.

Fifi Robozo is dead. Torg is dead.

Yes. And he assumes that Kirk and the whole Enterprise crew, he thinks they're all gone insane and they blew themselves up to kill six Klingons. He's like, what the hell am I going to do? We never trained for, like, that was not a scenario. What the Federation are supposed to be saying. But then Kirk chimes in on the communicator out of the blue and he's like, our ship was the victim of an unfortunate accident. And then he demands to be beamed up because they're like, they've got to get off the planet in order and that that's the only way he's going to get Genesis because that's what Cruz wants. But instead, because Cruz is a bastard, he's such a bastard. Cruz beams down with his gun drawn and gets the drop on all of them. And then he beams all the hostages back to the ship. The cruisers away except Spock and Kirk.

And this is the best version of Cruz because Kirk says, hey, take the Vulcan II and Cruz says no. And Kirk is like, why? And Cruz says, because you wish it. What an asshole.

But again, it's like the savviness.

There's no quarter. This is a real villain. There's no quarter. This guy's not.

And of how perceptive Cruz is of like identifying weakness and everything. And then Kirk again is trying to reason with like, you fool, you know, look around the place. You idiot.

We're going to like.

And Cruz is like, yes, exhilarating, isn't it? And he's so crazy. But they get it. And then it's like they fight. And then we have a fist fight, which is a little like.

It's so you know, it's like, look, this is like we're in a stage at Paramount. You know, the stage is obviously elevated because they've got like these monoliths coming up from the earth. And there's a couple of fire, a couple of propane.

But it sells it pretty well. It sells it.

It's you know, yeah.

And then they get this big map painting and they get on, end up on a cliff overlooking a sea of lava.

And of course, you know, and of course, Krug winds up hanging over a cliff.

Yes. And Kirk, in an honor, inexplicably honorable move, extends a hand.

Yeah.

For some reason to try to save him. But then Krug, instead of taking it, tries to grab him by the ankle.

I love his, to the bitter end.

To die with him.

Yeah.

And then we get maybe not the best Shatner line reading. As he...

As he kicks, as he rhythmically kicks Krug in the head, he says, I have had enough of you. Which is not the best reading and it's not the best rejoinder.

It's a choice. It's a choice.

But I kind of love it because you know what?

It's very satisfying.

It is satisfying when he does kick him.

I've also had enough of him. I've had enough of his dick moves. I've had enough because he is just no quarter and he's about thwarting and thrusting. It's great.

I just think dramatically given the fact that this is the person responsible for the death of his son and of his ship. That it feels a little anyway.

It's like Molo Ram's death in Temple of Doom. It's like when the payoff is a guy falls off a cliff, what's the payoff a guy falls off a cliff? It's hard to make that satisfying, you know?

But then it's a race against the planet completely blowing itself to smithereens, and Kirk crawls and jaunders his way back to Spock who's lying on the ground and turns him over to reveal he is now just the right age.

Now it's time to perfectly produce your Brad.

And he finds the communicator on the ground, he grabs it, and he says the immortal words, Maltz, Cho-e-de-cho orders, and they're beamed up off the planet just as the ground beneath them collapses into fire. That's a pretty great shot.

That's a pretty great shot.

Oh my god, it's great. And then we get the great John Larroquette's greatest moments where Kirk arrives on the bridge with Spock in one arm and the phaser in the other.

The phaser in the other.

And he's like, you. And Maltz is the only one left on the ship. Like all the other Klingons are dead. And he's like, you, help us or die. And he says, I do not deserve to live.

And then Kirk says the best line in the movie, fine, I'll kill you later.

It's so great. It's so great. And then meanwhile, our crew is trying to decipher Klingon controls.

Which one's the anti-matter inducer so they can get out of there?

So Sulu and Scotty is like, how do we run this, power this ship and get out of orbit and before the ship kills, the planet kills us. And it's like this, Chuck is like, this, no, this. And then Scotty is like, that or nothing. They punch it, break orbit. No plan. And then there's this just little coda of Kirk's.

When he says goodbye, David. Yeah. Yeah, it's really sad.

Which is also heartbreaking.

It's really sad. But you know, I got to tell you, so this ship in Star Trek IV is renamed the HMS Bounty. And this is the ship our crew is in for like the rest of this trilogy. You know, and it's kind of amazing to be like, I just love watching them trying to figure out the Klingon technology. And again, it's just those guys having their certain antics sort of, they're beginning to have a real relationship, which is awesome for these characters.

And by the way, the bridge, totally redesigned for Star Trek IV, no explanation, because it does not serve the needs of that film, the design, how it was designed for this film.

Because you know what that bridge is, by the way. That bridge, okay, so the Klingon bridge from Star Trek The Motion Picture was redressed into the torpedo bay in Star Trek II, and then they re-redressed it into the Klingon.

Exactly, exactly.

I love, and just knowing those stories about Star Trek is so satisfying also, by the way.

And then we get the button for the Klingon exchange, where they figured out their ship, and Kirk's like, best speed to Vulcan, take the prisoner below.

And most of them said, you would kill me.

And then Kirk just says, I lied. And that's out. It's like, there we go, we're back. Now, like, we're, there are about 15 minutes left. Yeah. But, and there's not a lot of dialogue. There's a big stretch where there's like, not a lot of dialogue.

Not a lot of movie either, yeah.

But before we arrive at Vulcan, we finally get this beautiful, I would say two-header, except one of the characters is unconscious. It's McCoy revealing, opening his heart to Spock.

Oh my God. You know, I did not remember this scene. I haven't seen this movie in a couple of years. I usually just watch the good bits and I did not remember this scene. And you know, here's my hot take on this scene.

You know the scene in Star Trek The Motion Picture where Spock has come back from seeing Vager and he takes Kirk's hand and says, Jim, this simple feeling is beyond Vager's comprehension. And that's how you see like Perkins Spock's real relationship, you know, and this is the McCoy and Spock version of that. And this is wonderful.

And it is a capstone to this entire fraught relationship between these two characters.

Producer Brad, just hit us with clip number six. Hit us in the fields. Give it to us.

I'm going to tell you something that I never thought I'd ever hear myself say. But it seems I've missed you. I don't know if I could stand to lose you again.

You know, Paul, there's a debate in fan community. Maybe you've heard of it. That Star Wars versus Star Trek, right? I think we should have all. I think we should have infinite diversity and infinite combinations as the Vulcan say.

Absolutely.

But I got to tell you, the emotion that I get from this, I've never felt that in Star Wars really. That sense of these characters being, I mean, Star Wars has a lot of great emotions, but it's always at the level of opera. And this is like, you're getting these human moments that are so touching. And I had forgotten the scene existed. And when I watched it, I just burst into tears.

Yeah, it kills me.

And McCoy, and by the way, DeForest Kelly, like, I mean, again, an actor that I just like so much. And he just, you know, this is his chance. This is, it's the only time Star Trek has given him this.

Yeah.

You know?

This is the best he's ever been. And the richest role he's ever gotten.

Yes.

In the character. And it makes me so happy for him and for us. But it's also the, it leverages, again, all the history, all the arguments and interchanges we've enjoyed between Kirk and Spock. And he makes this scene work and it's a monologue. Like, he's playing, it's a scene with two characters.

The other guy's Spock is unconscious.

But it's a monologue. And it is so pitch perfectly exquisite. And Horner's restrained, quiet, again, kind of touching score. It's just, it's one of these things that you could say in a genre movie, whatever, he'd be like, oh, do we need that? That's the kind of thing that could get cut. It's like, no, this is the heart of the movie.

This is also the perfect time for these actors to get an unsubtle script. You know, because we've seen the Star Trek crew do not so great things with bad scripts. You know, but this was the moment when all of these actors were so seasoned in these characters. It was literally a moment. And Paul, I did not appreciate any of this when the movie came out. I actually thought this movie was kind of really lacking when I first saw it, when I was 14. But as a grownup, I keep going back to this movie. I often just certain bits, but it's like, it is the hang, man. It is just, you're just, so, you know, and then we get to Vulcan and we find out, Paul, that-

And it's gorgeous.

Yeah.

It's gorgeous. And we find Uhura has successfully rendezvoused with Serak in the novelization, said that she got political asylum in the Vulcan embassy, and then escaped with Serak to Vulcan. She says there's this Bird of Prey asking permission to land, it's Kirk, and Serak says something like, tell them, tell Kirk, we'll be ready. And then some of the most gorgeous shots-

The Bird of Prey landing on that round with the red Vulcan sun, it's beautiful.

Oh my god. This, it's so freaking gorgeous. And the Bird of Prey lands, and again, it's like, oh, it's in the hands of an artist, Sulu, that at the helm has figured out how to perfectly land it.

Perfectly land a Klingon ship.

And satisfying, and then they all emerge carrying Spock, unconscious, are met by Uhura, who joins them, embraces them, and they are at Mount Soleil. We don't actually get to see them.

We didn't get our steps in. We did not get our steps in.

I'm kinda like, come on, man.

Everyone's Apple watch is pissed off. I get it.

Awaiting them at the top.

Which one is this? Is this to Pring, to Pau?

This is to Lau. To Lau, I believe.

Wow.

Is that correct?

I don't know.

Let me look that up again.

It's Dame Judith Anderson.

Dame Judith Anderson, like they, yeah, went for it to get someone of of sufficient gravitas as the high Vulcan priestess who is attended to by a retinue of hot Vulcan priestesses.

Hot Vulcans, yeah. Hot Vulcans are vaguely Tibetan Chinese garb, right?

And very sheer robes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Again, not something I knew I needed, but kind of did. And then there's this beautiful moment in exchange where she is addressing Cerec and is like, okay, basically, what do you want?

Then we find out there's an obscure, because this situation is so special, it's not, what is it called, what is it called the?

He says, I ask for Faltor Pan.

Yes.

The Refusion.

The Refusion, yes. And it's, and so she can actually use her mind meld ability to put Spock's brain from McCoy's, you know, into.

Maybe, maybe not, because as she says, what you seek has not been done since ages past. And then only in legend. Your request, yeah, your request is not logical, to which Cerec responds perfectly. And it's a beautiful moment. He says, forgive me to allow. My logic is uncertain where my son is concerned.

Beautiful.

And again, as a father son story running through this, and in parallel with, with Kirk's as like, what a father will do for his son.

Yeah.

It definitely hits me in a different way now.

I got no problem with anything that's happened in the scene. Now, Paul, you know, we're coming back because we had to take a break. I mean, you have to take a break.

Here's the thing, Faltor Pan, it takes a lot out of you because you know what it does?

What does it do, Paul?

It puts the whammy on you.

Oh, the whammy. All right, I got my, you ready for my dad joke? Ready?

Okay, sure.

I mean, I'm hearing a lot of Faltor Pan and not a lot of Faltor Pan do. No.

All right. I don't think my Contra can take that, Javi. I also, we have a correction. It is, I said T'lau, it's T'lar. I was mixing up T'Pow with T'lar and came up with T'lau.

We've got T'Pow, right? That's the first one we met, and you got to pull. Let's get back into Faltor Pan's labyrinth then.

Yes, exactly.

So we have succeeded at having some Faltor Pan.

Well, no, not yet. They have yet to commence Faltor Pan.

We haven't even started Faltor Pan?

No, no, no. Oh my God, wow.

Look, I'm so overwhelmed.

We've gotten the request for Faltor Pan.

Right. Is there a form that has to be filed with T'lau?

T'lau then requires...

T'lau, T'lau...

.is asking that who carries the cotra.

Oh, that's right. And it's Leonard, son of Enid.

It's McCoy, Leonard H., son of David. And there's this big grand warning about how dangerous this process is, because again, it is ancient mythic and...

I got to tell you, yes, ancient mythic and all that. But when this scene happened, all I could think of was death becomes her, right?

Interesting.

And now, a warning! I mean, you got to be a team, Judith Anderson and Isabella Rossellini have a little bit of a... No, nothing at all. Okay, never mind. Let's go on. I mean, there's a warning.

They're both bejeweled.

And the resemblance ends there. And they're both from Europe.

Kind of ends there. And Kelly has another great line, very wryly, responds with, I choose the danger. Yes. But then has an aside, under his breath, hell of a time to ask. And it's just another lovely character beat. And then we get this very long dialogue-free montage.

Yeah, what I believe filmmakers call a tone poem.

Yes. Of this long, all night ritual. Yes. Where Talar is acting as a psychic conduit.

That's right.

To psionically extract the Katra from McCoy and implant it in the resurrected Spock.

We get the endless montage of Spock's brain going into McCoy's brain, going back out into McCoy's body, and it's a whole thing.

And lots of concerned looks from his beloved, their beloved comrades.

This is a problem, I think, with movies, sort of dramatically, when you've got a movie that hinges on something like this, right? Like, there's no jeopardy. We know, it's not like Spock's gonna come out of it and be like, you know.

I mean, there is.

Que paso? Por que? I mean, he says he's gonna be sweet. We know.

Maybe.

I mean.

Well, maybe.

Did you? Come on, did you?

Well, let's put a button in that, because there was an alternate proposition to the ending that I'll come back to later.

Something I didn't read about on Starlog magazine when I was 13.

It'll probably come back to you. But, I mean, there is potential jeopardy that is set up as far as, I think, it might scramble their brains, one or both of them.

Right, right, right.

But we know at this point, we've already surmounted cinematically dramatic jeopardy. And at this point, it's like, how do you, this is very un-cinematic.

Yes, because also, yeah, and you're trying to give the audience an emotional catharsis, but we've kind of had that.

Yeah, yeah, and so that is a structural challenge that the film faces now at the very end, which is that, like, how are we going to, it's all going to have to rest on really this quiet, and also on having a very quiet climax, a very, that's leading into score and atmosphere. And that's what we're talking about.

It's like the movie really does peak halfway through.

Yes.

Stealing the Enterprise is by far the dramatic kind of thing. And then we're sort of in a slow denouement. And then by now, like, I mean, it's satisfying dramatically because we love these people.

Yes.

You know, but it's like, yeah, it's a bit, you know, it's.

But it's also a little exhausting and our characters are exhausted. And then Dawn breaks.

And it's not like Nimoy is Kurosawa, you know. So it's like, you know, yeah, it's pretty, but it's not, you know, it ain't exactly, you know, the end of Ron or anything, you know.

I mean, it's lovely. It's nice.

It's very nice. Very nice.

Yes. Dawn breaks. And McCoy.

We falterpanned till the break of dawn. Oh, sorry.

Your lack of respect for the Vulcan culture is just...

This is what happens when it gets an extra 24 hours to think of things to say.

It's just such a, such a philistine...

I'm a Bulgarian. I know it terrible. So we go on. So anyway, we falterpan.

And McCoy is a little wobbly, but he reassures Kirk, I'm all right, Jim. And then Spock is escorted by, and I wanted these white, like, terry cloth Vulcan bathrobes that the monks ran.

Right. No, no, they do have... But by the way, though, I now realize...

Oh my God, they look so comfy.

Now, Dame Judith Anderson is being taken away in her palanquin.

Yes, because she is drained. She is completely spent.

Paul, now you may remember yesterday we were talking about her entrance and how she's surrounded by these hot Vulcan men, right? I mean, they literally...

I was thinking of the hot Vulcan priestesses.

But there's also quite a few muscle-bound young men in what appear to be...

Yes, and now we see this is what they're for. They're to carry her aloft.

And Paul, in the 24 hours since we broke, I realized exactly what this reminds me of. This is what it looks like at the beginning of a Cher concert. When, like, literally, I watched a Cher concert in Las Vegas, and she was brought in on a palinqueen by, like, a bunch of really buff... It looked exactly like this. This is how they bring her in to sing, you know, I got you, babe.

I'm just imagining how different this film would be if they concluded the Val Torpan ritual with a Cher concert.

Or if instead of Dame Judith Anderson had been Cher.

Exactly. Cher as the Vulcan priestess. She would have rocked that.

Oh my God. Yeah. Are you kidding? That would have been amazing. And she would not have been nearly this tired at the end of this, by the way. I've seen a Cher concert. She was...

She'd be ready to start all over again. Then, Serak approaches and we have another little bookending scene with Serak and Kirk, who thanks him for what he's done. And Kirk replies, well, you know, what I've done, I had to do. And another little, very lovely exchange and understatedly perform.

This is where Serak says, if... At what cost?

Your ship, your son.

Your ship, your people.

Serak does not talk like Kirk. What are you doing?

Okay, okay.

And Kirk replies, if I hadn't tried, the cost would have been my soul.

My soul, yeah, which is a beautiful... And again, you know, look, this is the... And look, we're going to talk about... We've been talking about this the entire time. This is a movie that is flawed in so many ways, but it lands so many of the emotional payoffs. And they're the emotional payoffs that have been like decades in the making.

It's so earnest. It's so unabashedly earnest in those emotions and the depths of these relationships that they presume, I think, rightly for the core audience that the audience shares.

This one was kind of one for us, you know? It's kind of one for the fans. Even Wrath of Khan was sort of like, if you were a goyim to Star Trek, you could still come to see Wrath of Khan and get it. This one, it's like, you're in or you're not.

Yeah, it's only for members of the club. And so we see who we presume is Spock from the back being escorted away by the monks in the robes that I want. And then he stops and he turns, just enough. And we see it's Spock. It is him. It's Leonard Newboy as we remember him as Spock. And then he comes back and he approaches the crew who are all lined up in a row. And he...

You get the sense Spock is not all there.

He's not all there. He's not all there.

Yeah.

He hasn't fully, you know, how you do a system software update.

He hasn't been entirely, yeah.

And you've downloaded it, but you're kind of waiting for the installation process.

Yeah, we're in the blue screen of Falter Pan.

To... I'm assuming he's Mac OS, but...

I think Spock is Linux.

Oh, yeah, yeah, probably. And he is... He's kind of taking in the face of every expectant friend in, who are looking at him...

This is actually kind of a good suspense beat, to be honest with you. Because you're like this, he doesn't recognize... He's like, he walked into a surprise birthday party and he didn't recognize anybody there, you know?

Yeah. And they're all looking at him with this like yearning, like with this hope and also this awe of he's alive. He's like, this is a miracle. Yeah. And one by one, he walks by them slowly looking at them, not saying a word. And then he stops at Kirk. This whole scene, like the movie lives or dies or whether the scene works. And we get this very quiet exchange where he says to Kirk, my father says that you have been my friend. You came back for me. And Kirk says, you would have done the same for me. But Spock is curious and a little confused. He says, why would you do this? And then we get this great callback twist of Kirk saying, because the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many. And then Spock kind of takes this in, walks away, and then turns, stops and turns again. And we're seeing kind of light, like lights flickering behind the eyes.

You see the gears turning, you see that Faltor pan, like the little bar is finally getting to the end of the install, you know?

But then again, this is triggered memory in Spock. And he repeats, I have been and ever shall be your friend, which is a paraphrase.

I'm gonna go back to the end of Star Trek II, so we're experiencing for the fifth time in this movie.

Yes. And then Kirk is like, you know, yes, yes. And the memories are coming back to Spock and he's asking, ship out of danger.

So we're getting like, like you're basically rebooting to the last, you know, it's kind of like, like, yeah.

Yeah.

The last things they said to each other, yeah.

Yeah. Where he left off and Kirk is like, you saved the ship, you saved us all, don't you remember? And then we get Jim. Your name is Jim. And then it's like this, finally, it's like, boom.

And then the music kicks in and we get the little Star Trek kind of like the beginning of Ding, didn't you?

Yes. And McCoy like taps his temple knowingly.

Which is, which is a really nice little shot of DeForest Kelly. It's phenomenal.

The crew surrounds him and the music is swelling. It's this beautiful, most like, OK, the order is restored.

They make awkward small talk.

Yeah. The magnificent seven of the Star Trek crew are now whole again.

Yes.

And then in a final little nod, Spock turns to Kirk and does the eyebrow.

Yeah.

And which gives Kirk great joy. And then we go up wide to a big master, and the screen assures us the adventure continues. Yeah.

It's interesting. Paul, you know, it's interesting. So most Star Trek movies begin and end in space, you know?

Yeah.

They begin and end with the credits over a star field or beauty shots of the ship or whatever, and then they always end with the Enterprise going off, you know, to god knows where. And this one's kind of unique because it like actually starts with, you know, like wilderness. It starts with the Genesis planet and the opening credits are over shots of plants and stuff like that. And then we end on a planet. This is like one of the only ones that ends on a kind of earthbound quality to it. And I think it really speaks to kind of just how... Yeah, but it's very much about being grounded and about...

Yeah. And it's also about just the humanity of these characters.

Yeah.

Yeah. And not... And taken away from... And also, they now don't have the Enterprise.

They don't have a ship. They've got the HMS Bounty, yeah.

It is also essentially a cliffhanger. It's like, what is going to happen to this crew that's just committed treason? Oh, yeah.

There's that. And stolen the flagship of the Federation.

And destroyed it.

And destroyed it, yes.

Even though it was going to be decommissioned. So like, you know, big whoop.

Six of one. We're fine, right?

But it is, it is willfully a middle chapter that does not have its own beginning. No, it does not have its own ending. It is a it does not stand alone. It is a bridge. But yet it is I just find it so immensely satisfying. So Javi, I mentioned that there was an alternate consideration.

Yeah, please. That's here.

For the ending. And I don't know that this was actually filmed. I should have looked this up. Or if it was just contemplated and floated as a joke. I think if it had been filmed, we would have seen footage by now. But the idea was, and I'm not sure whose suggestion this was, this might have been Nimoy, is that after Spock turns to Kirk and says, Jim, your name is Jim. Yes. Then he turns to McCoy and he says, Jim, your name is Jim.

Then he says the same to Chekhov and he's like, Jim, your name is Jim.

Yes. Then it's like, oh my God, we're now dealing with crazy Spock, and then that'd be a whole other movie.

Now we've got Cybok.

I don't know, but it's an interesting fork in the road that they brought themselves to at the end of this film, which was, do we want to just reset and have Spock back, or do we want to have a new different version of Spock going forward?

Look, they tried that in Star Trek Nemesis, you may remember, with B-4, they had data, they had data, they had B-4. I'm glad that they... Look, first of all, we've been in this movie now for a little bit under two hours. We've suffered a lot with this crew. They better not F with Spock at this point.

Exactly.

We search for Spock, we better get Spock back as close to the way we liked him as before. You got to give the audience that.

And as we'll see in the next film, they do have fun with the fact that Spock...

Yeah, crazy Spock, yeah...

.has changed a little bit. He's been affected by what's happened to him.

Yeah.

He's initially more stoic.

Yes.

But yeah, but it still strikes me as very interesting, the opportunities that this presents, as well as them not having their own ship.

But you say something very interesting about, we would have heard about it by now, but they actually excavated something from Star Trek, a motion picture that had never been seen before. They literally, and this is, I mean, I literally just saw this on the internet like two days ago. They did footage and costume tests of Spock in like a Neanderthal Spock.

Oh yes.

With long hair and the thing and all that. I mean, it's like, so it's like, there's still lore that's missing. We don't know, you know, so it's like, who knows?

There was a whole sequence where- Neanderthal Spock, yeah. Yeah, he is out in the wilds and it's caveman Spock. Yeah, and he's living in the wild as part of his-

Yeah, as part of his colon R ritual. So, you know, I mean, there's this stuff, you know, there's just always stuff, but I'm glad they didn't go with this, Paul. I'm good. Well, producer Brad, though, you were looking up some information for us. What do you got?

Star Trek III opened on June 1st, 1984, but on that weekend we saw Streets of Fire. Star Trek III opened at number one at the box office with $16.5 million. In comparison, Wrath of Khan opened with $14 million. So now it's two weeks later, it's June 15th, and Star Trek III is the number four film behind Ghostbusters, Gremlins and Temple of Doom. For 1984, it ended up the ninth highest grossing film with $76 million behind Romancing the Stone and Ahead of Purple Rain. And in the Star Trek films, it's the eighth highest grossing film, one behind Star Trek II and just ahead of Star Trek VI and Generations.

Now, Paul, let's talk about the odd number in the room, shall we?

Yes.

Now, there is a, dare I say, calumny out there that states that the odd numbered Star Trek films are all the worst ones, right?

Yeah.

I don't believe that. I think Star Trek The Motion Picture is terrific. I think the last two hours proves we love this film. Obviously, The Final Frontier, we got problems, right?

Five is objectively bad, yes.

Yeah, and then we got six, which is great, right?

Yeah.

Then we got, okay, Generations, I don't know, right?

It's, it's, it's...

Okay, never mind, then you got First Contact, then you got Insurrection. Okay, anyway, how are you doing, Paul? What are we watching next week?

I will say, because of the odd number nomenclature, I don't watch this film. I just go to two and four and six, and I regret that because I really enjoyed watching this, and I've missed out on a couple of decades.

I think that's an excellent point, producer Brad, and I think that this is the most underrated Star Trek film. And because of this artificial construct, under like common conventional wisdom of the odd numbers not being good, I think it's been unfairly overlooked. And yeah, it's like, you might as well believe in Voodoo.

I'll throw a grenade into that, ready?

Please.

I like this movie better than Star Trek VI, which a lot of people claim is like, and I think Star Trek VI is a really great movie. I enjoy it enormously.

We watched it front row at the Chinese Hobby, craning our necks.

And we had a great time. Yeah, we had a great time. I remember. But I think that Star Trek VI is almost like Nicholas Meyer went so far into his love of Shakespeare and Sherlock Holmes and the Cold War. You know, and this movie feels much more of this world, rather than a much more idiosyncratic vision of it. And I think it's a more satisfying movie, to be honest with you, but you know, I could be wrong. I don't know.

And the production notes, Nimoy intentionally was going for character. He wanted to go back to what he liked best about this series and what he thought the first film missed.

Yes, yes. And it does feel like it's a swing of the pendulum to make up for deficiencies of the motion picture.

But not the Wrath of Khan. They were not making up for it because there's no deficiencies in the Wrath of Khan, Captain Paul, if that's where you were headed with that.

No, no.

Sounds like you're, but no, no. We're not making up for anything in Wrath of Khan.

That's why I said the motion picture. Okay, thank you. Is that they were still making up for-

Oh, we're still making it. Like even as great as Wrath of Khan, we still had stuff to make up for?

Yeah. I think certainly from the actor's point of view in terms of what they wanted to do.

Yeah, no, I can see that.

Yeah, look, I can see that. The direction that they wanted to point the franchise in, which is that it's about the characters, it's about the relationships.

Unless you're William Shatner, in which case it's about Shatner.

It's all about him, yes.

Yeah, exactly. He made up for that in Star Trek V in Spades. He really just came back with bags of Shatner for us.

Yeah, but yeah, no, VI is an interesting contrast, and I don't disagree with what you said. It's also another example of the price that then continues to be paid by not still having Kirstie Alley as a savage.

Oh, absolutely. No, no, that is a run on you. That's a bad, you know.

That persists into Star Trek VI.

Yeah.

But anyway, we're still in 1984.

All right. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, producer Brad, we have seen Star Trek III, and it has seen us. We have, we have Faltor Panned. You're actually now Paul, I'm you, and you're me. So, no, Paul is me. So, now that we've done this three-way Faltor Panned, what are we seeing next weekend?

Next week is June 22nd, 1984, and four movies opened this weekend. So you have a selection. Let's see how you're going to do with these. Here's your first option.

Words fail, buildings crumble.

No! No, no, no, no, no.

No, no. We're looking at, for our listeners, we're looking at the terrifying...

We're looking at Javi having an aneurysm, no. Javi bursting it, no.

We're looking at the terrifying one-sheet for Rhinestone with Sylvester Stallone. I'm sorry, with...

Stallone. It broke my brain.

And Dolly Partoon.

With Sylvester Stallone. Arm wrestling. And Dolly Partoon.

Dolly Partoon.

Partoon, no, get us out of here. Stallone, Partoon, no.

Can you guys read the credits? It's directed by Bob Clark from Porky's and A Christmas Story, and it's been written by Phil Alden Robinson.

A field of dreams?

Yeah, wow. Wow.

No, no, it's a nightmare. It's a nightmare. Get us out of this fell through fans' labyrinth.

All right, your next option is. Please, please.

Oh, a top secret.

Top secret.

I don't even wanna know how Paul Plot would summarize this film because he would just go from gag to gag, right? I mean, it's like, we'll be there for eight hours, but I love this. I love this movie. What do you think, Captain Paul?

I mean, it's vintage Val Kilmer.

Oh, my God. Top secret. Yeah. OK, so what what else open? Let's see. What else? What else?

And Peter Cushing.

That's true. It's Peter Cushing. Yeah. Yeah.

Pope of Greenwich Village.

Yeah. Because you know what? You know, I'm in a good mood and I was hoping somebody could cure that. So, yeah, that's all right.

Here's your next option.

The karate kid. You know.

Oh, my God.

Wow.

I you know, I have a confession to make. I've never seen this whole movie.

What parts have you seen?

I've never. I've wax on wax off. And then the contest at the end. That's all I've seen. You know, I've seen like a bunch of scenes with Miyagi where he's you know, Yoda like and awesome. And then I've seen the final contest. So I could watch this. You know, I'm just saying. Captain Paul, what do you think?

I, um, I kind of want to watch Top Secret.

Then let's watch Top Secret. You know what, I'm easy.

I want to have fun.

Oh, The Crying Kid is fun, though.

Yeah, it's a little problematic, I think. And, you know, what do you guys want to do?

You guys want to do a Faltor pan for it? Because I'm good either way.

I have now to be fair, I've not seen it since it since I was a kid, I think. I don't think I've ever revisited it.

Producer Brad, producer Brad, if you were using your producer Brad Vision, right? And you know that we're going to hit some dog days this summer, like we have every summer. Top Secret is a movie we love because we watched it on cable and it's the Zucker Brothers and all of that's Abraham's and Zucker, right? But it's not as popular a movie, it's not as well remembered. So Top Secret has a much bigger chance of closing earlier than The Karate Kid, which became a legend.

Yes.

So like, if we find ourselves in a weekend where we've got like-

I see.

Fanny and Alexander, you know, Andre Rublev, right? And The Soldier, right? Then maybe that weekend we watch The Karate Kid, you know, I'm just saying, right?

Yes. And Omar Sharif, man.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Also, also, also, also, it's only 90 minutes. And I think we owe ourselves and our listeners-

I think we owe our listeners a short episode. Although, although Paul, you know, it might be one of those things where like, we think, oh, it's going to be a short episode. And then we cut to hour six and you're like, and then, and then he picks up the phone and it's bigger because it's Forced Perspective. And we're like, Paul, we can't.

Sorry, I'm sorry.

Well, let's do Top Secret.

I accept that dare.

Okay, Top Secret it is.

We've never done a comedy like this. That's just gag after gag after gag.

That's true, yeah.

It scares the crap out of me, too, Producer Pat.

But we'll see.

But we're going. We're doing-

I'm excited. Well, yeah.

Okay. So ladies and gentlemen, next week, Zucker, Abram Zucker, classic Top Secret, starring the never more handsome than he was, Val Kilmer. Ladies and gentlemen, until then, we will see you in line at the Multiplex.