Welcome to zombie strains, the podcast where we watch all of the zombie movies. In chronological order, this episode, the year is 1961, and the location is Mexico for the curse of the doll people. What do they call them? Zombie's or something? Zombie, what does Zombie? Just what is a Zombie? Will a Zombe? There's the, Bill. The Living Dead.

Hey everybody. I'm John.

I'm Andy.

I'm Brad.

How you guys doing today in our exotic trip to Mexico for our first in our second Spanish language. Zabi movie. I am feeling scarred for life from this nightmare fuel dolls. Yes, the dolls are fascinating. The doll people is the title of the film says. Yeah, I'm curious to see what you think of this one. It's a little crazy. As mentioned, we are watching the curse of the doll people. This is actually a Mexican film. It's originally in the Spanish language. And as Tyler's unencos in franales, which I think would be literally translated as devil dolls or dolls of the devil. But the version we watched is one made for American television and it's called Curse of the Doll People and I'm sure Brad will give us all the detail on that when we're ready to go any trigger warnings on this one, 80. No, unless you have a real issue with creepy dolls. If you do, you should avoid this movie like the plague. That's interesting. I didn't find the dolls that creepy. So now I'm curious about what how creepy they were for you. All right, well then, Brad, tell us about how this movie was made and who was behind it. The curse of the doll people is a Mexican horror film released in 1961. It is the third and final film, final zombie film from 1961 that we're going to watch. It was directed by Benito Alazraki, who is 40 directing credits. His first film was a 1955 film called Roots, about Indigenous people of Mexico and it competed at the 1955 Cannes Film Festival. Whoa, I'm not sure I would have guessed competing at the Cannes festival from this production, but he went on to direct all genres of films. Or why is he did a core comedy called Frankenstein, album Piro E. Campagna? By the way, I was a German major, not a Spanish major, pardon my Spanish. He also directed one of the first Santo films, Santo versus the zombies, which will be in our future. Yes. Benino's grandson Gary or Gazz is also a director and he directed the 2022 HBO Max remake of Father of the Bride that starred Andy Garcia in Gloria Estefane. Oh wow. The screenplay. Can I just call this and say what a weird world it is that we live in that I saw the original and now there's a remake and I didn't. Yeah. Well wait, when you say you saw the original, what does that mean? Well, I saw the Steve Martin one, which by isn't the original. No, you have to go back to Spencer Tracy, and I believe it was Elizabeth Taylor played the bride. So that's the original, and then there's a Steve Barton, and now there's the Andy. Okay. All right. Good deal. So the screenplay is credited to Alfredo Salazar, but many of his films have plots similar to other films or novels. For example, he wrote Frankenstein, L. Vempiro E. Companion, which was basically a remake of Abbot and Castella Meet Frankenstein. The curse of the doll people is very similar to the 1932 novel, burn, which burn, written by Abraham Merritt. The novel is about a witch who sends dolls to kill. It was adapted into a film in 1936 called The Devil Doll. It was produced by MGM, directed by Todd Browning, who directed Frankenstein, and starred Marino Sullivan in Lionel Barrymore drew Barrymore's great uncle. Oh, wow. If burn, which burn, first of all, that's a great title. And if that's not also the name of a Rob Zombie song, I will be shocked. I'm not gonna bet against it. Now, this movie, the devil doll has a different plot than the novel or the movie that we saw. The devil doll is about a mad scientist who worries that the world will become overpopulated so he creates a formula that shrinks people in size, hoping this will reduce the consumption of natural resources. Yeah, I mean, maybe we should send some funding his way. I mean, yeah, I mean, why not? I'll leave you guys to your wallet there. Yeah, we won't make this a political show, but definitely donate to that guy. Back to Alfredo Salazar. He wrote over 60 movies, including the Aztec mommy, the robot versus the Aztec mommy, and face of the screaming wear wolf. several Santo Movies and a 1968 movie called The Bad Woman. Hold on a second. Now, this is not the 1966 The Wild World of the Bad Woman that we talked about in teenage zombies with Katherine Victor. This is a Mexican film about a female wrestler who uses her wealth and skills to fight crime while dressed in bikini, mask and cape, all the same colors as Adam West's Batman costume. Yeah, that's. And I'll link to the trailer in the show notes. Andy you've seen this trailer is that everything we hoped it is the best thing I've seen all week all just say that and I watched a curse of the doll people so yeah awesome. on to the cast, the movie stars Elvira Cantana as Karina or in the English version Karen. She had 60 acting credits in a very short career. She died young at the age of 32 from a stroke. This is another wonderful female star in the tradition of Miras lava and there was another woman who got the lead poisoning from the cephalos attack of the 50 foot woman. Alison Hayes. Alison Hayes. And these weren't like, you know, it's not like it was the 18th century. And they were dying of consumption or something. These are these are just all weird deaths. Yeah, it's the curse. It's the curse. It's the zombie strains curse. That's my current, that's my new theory. It's like a, it's a precursor. 32, that's so young. I mean, she is such a screen presence. Like, what a loss. That's only a year or two older than us. I mean, if you divide our ages by two, is that what you mean? And in that note, Ramon Gay plays Dr. Baldez. He was the star of the three Aztec Mummy movies. He was killed in 1960, the year before the curse of the doll of people was released. He was having dinner with Evangeline Alizando, a famous Mexican actress, when her husband appeared and during an argument, Gay was shot. Wow. Now, everywhere I looked, the language around this argument and the incident was very vague. So I don't know who shot or how it happened. So all I can say was he was shot. All right, fair enough. Now I'm curious about the Aztec Mummy movies. Yeah, so who would you put your money on the robot or the Aztec Mummy? I have good Aztec Mummy vibes. I don't see. Yeah, I'm putting my money on the Aztec Mummy. All right. The Aztec Mummy, it is the Aztec Mummy series. So I would vote for the the most. He's like the James Bond of Monkeys is what I'm hearing. Javier Loya plays Juan, his acting career started in Mexico in 1950 in the mid-50s. He went to New York City and studied acting at the actor's studio. There he became friends with Marilyn Monroe, who was also a student. And there are cool pictures of a Marilyn years later visiting Javier in the set of Louise Bonwell movie in Mexico. Oh, wow. I'll post a link in the show notes to the photos. And lastly, Kintin bullness plays the voodoo priest. He will return to zombie strains in the 1971 movie, Isle of the Snake People, which also stars Boris Carloff. He can wear his same outfit that he wore in this one, which has a bit of a snake on the chest. Absolutely. All right. Well, that's all interesting. You didn't mention the composer who has almost 300 composing credits over 30 years. How many of those do you think he just recycled? Like how many of those are like James Horner, screenplay screen sound? In this movie, he's credited as music supervisor. So he probably repurposed up in this film. Yeah, okay, that makes sense. It was all fine, but none of it stuck out, I guess is what I would say. You didn't all match. Didn't all match? You don't have the curse of the doll. People soundtrack on repeat on sponsored. No, I've been waiting for the Deluxe DVD or the Deluxe CD double to come. the bonus tracks. Yeah. For sure. By the way, I did look up, but we talked about about Hazel Courts Book Horr Queen. I found two used copies on Biblio.com. One was $118. The other one was a signed first edition hardcover and that was $1100. So I need to figure out how I'm going to read that book because it ain't from Biblio.com. I would think an actress like her who is in these genre films has lots of fans and that will drive the price up. Yeah, I'm sure. And I might have been a limited-run book, you know, sort of fan book and then a lot of fans. Um, a John, let's cast aside pre-tense here. Do you want to hold up both of the copies that you've recorded? Sure. Yes. And then the papers, my wife served me immediately following me buying an 1100 book about an actress I saw in One Movie. So. Yeah. Excellent. Thanks, Brad. Hey, John, you want to tell us what was going on in the world at the time that cursor that all people came out. Yeah. So we've started. We're still in our first year of the 1960s. There were no zombie movies in 1960. So this is our third, 1961, when we so rather than talk about it, generally, I've tried to focus more on the month and around the time that this movie came out. So as you know, we all do, we always have a sports fact, right, Andy? the 15th NBA championship was won by the Boston Celtics over the St. Louis Hawks. Eight of Ickman's trial begins in Jerusalem in this month. The month this movie came out and Yuri Gagarin becomes the first man to orbit the earth. So it is quite a month so far actually. Have you read the Ikeman in Jerusalem? I have no idea, Hannah. It's one of my favorite books. I'm going to have to read those. Fantastic. All right. The apartment wins best picture, and Bert Langcaster and Liz Taylor when best actor and actress. France becomes a nuclear power in 1961. They test detonated their first hydrogen bomb. Barbara Streisand makes her national TV debut as a guest on tonight's starring Jack Parr and they misspelled her name and the credits, it's spelled it with a Y. But we're not done yet. Bay of pigs is this month. That is when the CIA recruited a bunch of Cuban nationals to try to invade Cuba and overthrow Castro and it was an absolute disaster. This one was interesting. Four French generals, living in Algeria, rebelled against Algerian independence and tried to conduct a coup to keep control of the country. And this one's for you. Brad, last but not least, former future and Hall of Fame Detroit, Piston, Isaiah Thomas was born this month. So you mentioned one of the sports teams you mentioned was the Hawks. That doesn't ring any bells. Is that like a no longer around team? Oh, okay. Yeah. St. Louis has this way of just every like losing their teams and then stealing other people's teams. It's a whole thing. It's the St. Louis Rams used to be the LA Rams, but with anyway, they used to be the cartels, but the cardinals went to Phoenix never mind. All right. Well, have we put off discussing this movie long enough? I think so. And you're in charge, Andy. So if you're ready. All right. I'm going to try to give a 60 second overview. we meet our protagonist, and I think our by far our most like brash assertive female investigator type protagonist. Yes, any movie we've seen today. Since Mary, at least since Mary in the Ghostbook, Ghostbreakers. I think she's even more go get them than Mary. And she's just super competent. Sorry, we'll get into that, please, continue. Yeah, we'll get into, all right. So this is Karina. Um, but I don't know what version of this movie you watched. I think there are a couple of them floating around. When I watched was about an hour and 20 minutes. Yeah, we did. Actually, can I, can I step back for a second before we, before you continue any? Because I think there's an interesting point that I wanted to make that I forgot. What I didn't do is, so this, this film is originally in Spanish. It was 139 minutes. The version we watched was a version edited and dubbed for American television, and it's only a hundred and twenty-one minutes. So the Spanish language version has 18 more minutes, but there's no dubbed or subtitled version out there I could find. So I was tempted to just skim through the Spanish language version, but I knew I wouldn't be able to maintain my interest after having just watched the whole thing dubbed in English. So that's maybe a curious feature investigation. this has got to be the most the most mysterious missing minutes since the water gate tapes, right? I read that the missing minutes were mostly early in the film in the parlor where everyone's discussing what's going on. Oh really? That scene is just one pure exposition scene. Yeah, that's where it was cut. I will say I I mean this movie I don't know how you would add more. Make these scenes go on longer than this version does. So I'm kind of intrigued, but also terrified by the thought of version that is 20 minutes long. Yeah. OK. I we've avoided this long enough. Sorry. Yeah. All right. So all right. So we meet Karina. She's going to be our protagonist. She is sort of a cult scholar of some sort. And at the beginning of the movie, we are introduced to a group of sort of scholars slash archaeologists are what not who ever returned from a trip where they witnessed a forbidden voodoo ceremony and stole an idol. They took the idol back home with them and now they are all under a voodoo curse that promises to kill them and their families. So in fairly rapid succession, these people start dying. We learn that the mechanism by which they're murdered, are murderous dolls unleashed by somebody I never caught his name in the actual film I just call him the doll master a sort of video master sort of guy who sends creepy dolls to people and then the dolls then kill the person and then the process repeats with the next victim. After a bunch of people will die, Karina starts putting the puzzle pieces together, and she goes to confront the doll master in his voodoo temple. Will she succeed in shutting down this hellish doll operation or not? That sounds about right. There's some extra creepy details about the dolls, but we'll get into those as we go. We'll get into it. Alright, so a couple of quick notes. I'll be writing the discussion today. Uh, first of all, so this is a black and white film, and at least the version I watched with was kind of grim visual quality, a lot of the scenes are dark, and that actually made it hard for me sometimes to understand what was going on or where they were. I don't know if that was the original film or as we've seen before that just, yeah. Oh, well, I'm sorry because I posted that version for us to share and then I found a better one on the internet archive and I didn't post that version. So the one that we did watch, there was a moment where you could see that it was a video tape that I've been uploaded because I had those sort of video tapes scan lines. Oh, wow. So we watched a film that had been recorded on video like VHS and then uploaded. So it was pretty low quality. Wow. Well, and what it made a difference is my question is the fact that I watched a slightly better version really in advantage for me. Well, all right, add one of the general comment. And so this is our first movie we've watched. That is does has English dialogue dubbed over it. Yes. So we watched one other Mexican horror movie that was helped me remember the name guys revived monster, the Revive monster. And we watched that with subtitles. I don't know, but you guys, I much prefer watching subtitles and having the audio be in the original language. But yeah, here we are. Did this impact your experience of the film John? I think it did because the dubbed actors were fine, but they were all little flat. And so every so it made them the movie feel flat in general. I almost hashed a scheme to find the original Spanish language version and get AI to create subtitles for me, but then I realized I was lazy and wasn't going to do that. listeners get on it. You have your mission. All right. All right. We got to get into this though. All right. So, Karina is as we as the movie opens, we meet Karina. She and her, I guess, boyfriend, Armando, are conneudling. He is proposing marriage to her. She's kind of brushing him off a little bit, but finally agrees that they're going to get married later in the year. And Karina is, I mentioned it earlier already, but I think she's our most, she's like the Van Helsing of this movie. Yeah. And so let's get a real early audio clip where she kind of tells us a little bit about her stuff. What's her skill set? Yeah. Tell me, darling, how did you acquire so much knowledge about indigenous traditions, the occult sciences and the rest? Well, the credit is due, my famous scientist father is a child I became interested in archeology and medicine and all the many traditions and all the many strange rights of the dark, dark past. I went with him almost all over the world. We went on trips to many countries studying ancient customs and the modern. So she knows all about the occult and we can tell right away, this is not going to be a science zombie movie. This is going to be a cult zombie movie. Exactly. Well, Karina and Armando are on their way to a social event. They are leading. They're a weird social event. They're meeting up with a bunch of people that were essentially to me just indistinguishable. They're all men. They're all wearing identical looking suits. This movie expects that you are keeping track of their names. I had no concept of who was who amongst these men. So I did enjoy the, there's the one young one who felt really bad about stealing the idol and I, and I sort of sing it him out as somebody that I liked, but that beyond that they all sort of blend. He's the only memorable and sympathetic one. But yeah, so the key people here are there talking to four men, these are Luis John, Albert and Daniel, who are scholars or research assistants or whatever. in the late 19th century or something, right? They have jobs in lives, but they go on adventures as like, I don't know what. Yeah, that is my career goal. I think it's too late, but like, I think it's too late to be a gentleman of venture, but I know. Anyway, they all took a trip to Haiti. So here we are touching base with Haiti again, after in the 50s spending a lot of time not talking about Haiti, right? And while on this trip to Haiti, Now, they describe these like these are terrifying for bin rituals. I, whenever people talk in scared tones about voodoo rituals, I picture the voodoo rituals in the devil's daughter where they're just having a great time in dancing and having fun. So, I always assume that's what happening. People are just having a party. And these white guys show up and are like, oh my gosh, just say to you. So, they witnessed these rituals that they're not supposed to see, and they see a beautiful idol. and they decide that they're going to steal that idol, which they do. But which they do, but as they escape, they are confronted by a voodoo priest who puts a curse on them. Yes. And the curse kicks in pretty quickly, because their guide is murdered quickly after this. But then they make it back home with the idol. And so, is home? Do they ever mention a place? that this takes place in. I don't think they do. Are we meant to assume this is Mexico? I think so. I think we're meant to assume it's Mexico City, but they don't say that. Well, Karina gives us a big info dump about what she knows about voodoo and zombie lore at this point. So let's hear Karina chipping in, always ready with this with some information for us. that these priests who control voodoo cults against of Congress as they are called, use powers that modern science doesn't understand? But how? The Congress usually tend to combine their voodoo rights with an art called Bunga. Bunga? Like magic, dude. There are those that defend the arts of voodoo, who affirm that the two aren't related. There are certain men called Boko's, who use black magic. The Congress frequently is also a Boko. He is two persons in one. This form of magic is used by witch doctors for curing, and make use of certain roots and herbs that have value. But on other occasions, they use it destructively, invoking evil spirits with such names as Kita, Buckaloo, Sandoor. This is when they want blood. You've all heard the fable about how they're able to change persons into zombies to make them slaves. They also use magic to conjure up evil curses into destroy their enemies too. different things are used in this black magic you know. At times it's a wax image resembling the victim who will die. They also use a miniature coffin and a toe as well. They frequently eliminate the individual with poison. So I hope you were taking note. Yeah, did you get all that? Professor Karina? Yeah. That is also way more interesting detail than the rest of this movie than really like this doesn't pay off all this cool detail because the guy behind all this is just a weird dull master that isn't anyway who can also hypnotize people Yes. So the others all scoff at Karina, but she warns them not to joke about a dangerous cult and their dangerous curse. We also learned that one of these four men really regrets his actions. Yep. I forget the name. This might be John. Let's say it is, but I'm John and that's the one character I liked. I think it is time. Yeah. He was the younger one. Yes. Yeah. He seems I mean he understands what they did in ceiling idle is wrong and he wishes he could undo it. But of course it's too late. So they've all been told and in fact they're hosting this party tonight because they've been told that by the time the clock strikes midnight. One of them will be dead. The curse will have come from one of them and won't you know that's just a couple of minutes away I know that when I have curses levied against me I post parties so that everyone can bear witness to the Lucien and I guess that's and They scoff at the curse, of course, and she's like don't scoff at the curse and they're like that's just that's nonsense So Lewis is the main, I think he was the kind of the expedition leader. Yes. He's got the pointy beard. So he's the host of this party. He's got the beard. He's showing off this idol. And just as he is scoffing at Green is warning, the lights go out. And there's a big tons of thunder, tons of lightning, panic ensues. And then a kind of funny thing happens they a child. So Louis has a kid and this kid calls down like dad or something like that from upstairs. And did you notice then? they then they say like oh hey the baby's awake yes uh this when we see this child it's like eight years old like so I don't know this is a translation thing or whatever but they're eight year old baby anyway well I'd like to give some credit to this scene though because it does a good job of building mystery right he goes to see his daughter and she says and she says my doll got up and moved on its own and he's like don't be ridiculous and and he's the first one to bite it but you don't see how it happened so so we're actually off to a pretty good start here. Yeah, this is a good scene. Yeah, so this scene ends with Louis goes up, he comforts his kid, and she kind of creepily tells him, oh yeah, like my doll got up and walked off. Yes, and he's like, oh, how silly. And then, but as he's heading back downstairs to the party, he collapses and tumbles down the stairs. And we don't see what has killed him. although a later autopsy is going to reveal that he has suffered a wound to his ankle, like, yes, something. I don't know. Can you think of anything that might be about ankle, height that could have stabbed him, John? Well, I don't know. Cat, maybe it's a mystery. The movie doesn't reveal it. No, it does. It's pretty obvious it's the doll, but I kind of liked this because we haven't seen the doll yet. You know, we haven't Yeah, so I had to say this is a pretty good opening 10 minutes of the film, a feature throughout this movie is there's too much talking and exposition, but this is a good scene. Yeah, when we set up, we've set up all the stakes that we need, and we know that these people are going to start, start getting picked off one by one, starting with Lewis really dramatically. So, do you have any other thoughts on that scene before we're going to move on next to when they are kind of discussing Lewis's death? Yeah, no, no, go for it. Well, I have one comment. When I think Luis is the one who says, I saw that idol. I had to have it. They wouldn't let me buy it. They wouldn't trade. So I had to take it. Right. Then there, you know, he, you're going to be happy when this guy dies. Right. He earned it. Yes. He deserved it. Yeah. So Luis has died. And Karina and Armando, her boyfriend, are kind of discussing his death. This is when Karina is the one who noticed that there was a wound on his ankle. Yes. They get into a little back and forth here, and let's talk, let's listen how Karina and Armando discuss the significance of Luis's death. You're thinking about Luis, aren't you? And his poor wife will be all alone now with a daughter to raise. Yes, it was a senseless tragedy. Darling? Huh? You must have seen the wound he had on his leg, it was down by his ankle. Yes, he probably got a splitter in it when he fell on stairs. But don't you think we'd have found it near his body? That splinter was pretty long. What's on your mind, dear? It was an accident and nothing more. Don't try to tell me Boudou curse because I'm not a child. We scientists at times are bound to be a little too arrogant, and we tend to joke about supernatural things and refuse to give them their proper respect. So we set up the skeptical scientists, you know, we've got, you know, Scully and Molder all over again. We set up with these two, where the husband doctor is Scully and his wife is Molder who wants to believe and has knowledge of how all this stuff works. Yep. So no sooner has this happened though that we get our second victim of the curse. So this yeah, these guys drop pretty quick. They drop real fast. Yeah, it in fact we can I'm probably going to skim over all I'm not going to go into all the deaths in detail, but basically all four of them are are going to die in rapid succession here. Yeah. the next victim though is John the nice guy so the one who felt bad about stealing the the idol that but there's a there's an item that they all discover shortly before their killed what is it oh that's right it is a court of human here it looks like yes and I believe they refer to it as hold on It's the sorcerer's ladder is what they call it, which I like to very much and the dolls where we're going to later see how the dolls are killing people and they collect the sorcerer's ladder after the kill usually. I think yes, that's what happens. And I think the ladder gets longer for every death that is. Oh, I didn't see that. Yes, so I didn't notice that. Okay, that's that the Fudu master is using. Well, they bring John in and he's breathing his eyes are open and they basically, Karina concludes, you know, he's seen something so terrifying that he's just died from it. The doctor's baffled, he can't think of any drugs or any illness that would cause this and John dies, but like a lot of these victims, like he kind of makes a Maybe right after he dies, I wasn't quite sure what was going on. I'm not quite sure what's going on, but I did see that and I couldn't make head or tail of it, but I'm curious about it. So, Karina Gathers is a surviving group to discuss the situation. She now believes that the deaths are connected, that it was murder, and she believes it's the voodoo curse, and that the men are paying for the sin of witnessing that ritual and then stealing the idol. And she, I mean, she just bluntly predicts that Albert or Daniel are going to be next, which, of course, they are. Yes. Any thoughts on this, John? Well, I think what's interesting. I don't think we see it quite yet, but what we're going to discover very quickly is that that these dolls are sent to kill these people. Well, I don't want to steal your thunder. There's something about the dolls that's particularly creepy. Yeah, so we're about to get to the meat, the beating heart of this movie, which is the creepy dolls. Yes, because we move on to the third the third murder guy who's about to get killed. But this time we see what kills him. And John, why don't you describe what appears in his office? So it is a doll and what they've done is is. So in the in the fiction of the movie, what it is, it is a doll, that has the appearance of the last victim, right? So Luis is the first doll we see. And then as more people are killed, the dolls look like those people. So when John dies and the child gets the new doll, it looks like John. So the dolls in this movie look like the victims. And we'll get to the details later. But this voodoo witch doctor is taking their souls and putting them in these dolls that look like them. and then sending them out to kill people. I love that so much that they look like the last victim. It's so good. the way this is pulled off is they have is just very sort of blank doll like masks that appear to be the actors and then they have a little person playing the doll so so the doll will we'll get introduced it'll lie there and then they'll cut to the to the actor wearing the mask get up and he'll they'll walk around and do the murdering and they're creeping around with the mask on and the mask are really good because They're solid and it looks like a solid doll in the way they they fit on the head in the body. They don't seem there's nothing fake about it. Somehow it really works for me. It does work. It is really cool, like the, so I thought these dolls were genuinely pretty creepy looking. Not, not like super scary, but they looked weird and unnerving, I would say. There was actually a bit in here that really unnerved me a lot. So, so when we see John's doll, what happens is, you know, somebody's ants sent the little girl a doll because she was sad about the death for father. And then we realized she's been sleeping in her bed with this doll that then gets up. It looks like John who is the victim and leaves her bed to go murder somebody. And when I realized that this was the mechanism for delivering the dolls, I actually was really cooped up by that. That this little girl was sleeping with this animated voodoo doll. Yeah. Yeah. So the doll kills you by removing a sort of a stiletto type blade. Yeah. They don't specify, but I mean, based on all of our zombie movie watching, what is this substance that has to be coded on the stiletto, John? I mean, the blade looks just like the one from four skulls of Jonathan Drake, so it has to be curary. It does, it looks, it's exactly like that blade, in fact, so yeah, the, the doll creeps to the office and stabs this third guy who dies and then it retrieves that sorcerer's ladder. And then without further ado, this movie is not going to drag these four deaths all the way across its runtime. No, because the fourth, the fourth death occur is next. The fourth guy comes any finds that braid of hair, the sorcerer's ladder. It came with a doll that was delivered to their house. The doll wakes up, pulls out a soleto again, it approaches the sleeping man, it stabs him, recovers the blade of hair, I guess the doll is out of their modus operandi down pretty pat here. Yes. And then, but then we learn something new here, and that is what the doll kills the person and it leaves the building, and a figure greets the doll outside, and then walks off with it. Yeah. And we don't know this yet, but that figure is our movie zombie. Yeah, I did not know until the very end, I didn't know if we were... This is categorized as a zombie movie. I wonder if the dolls were kind of supposed to be the zombies, but no, we actually are going to meet a bona fide of decayed corpse zombie at the end of this movie. So the dolls who have a zombie like mojo into what they do. Yes, they have a little more agency than the zombies we used to, but they don't speak. They're not completely mindless, but they are driven. They're expressionless. They're expressionless. Yes. Yeah, so one of the things I want to mention at one point during this, we got a brief cut away over to the doll master and he we hear him villainously intoning like, you know, something along lines of like, now you will all die from the curse. But we don't know who this like a secretly one of the people we've already met in the movie. It's just like a separate villain that I think we never really learn is connection to all of this, but we do know he doesn't look even a little bit Haitian, but yeah, yeah, for sure. uh, at this point I did put down on my notes is this is, despite all this happening, it's kind of a slow-paced movie. Yeah, I think, I mean, there's some cool stuff and I think, you know, like I had real tension when the, when the doll was in the girl's bed and all of that, but, but I started to sort of slow down now. You know, we're going to doll breaking into the hospital. We've got, you know, some other stuff like that that just, um, that just Yeah, so we did get a glimpse of the villain and this is where we're kind of told how this is working. This is where we learn. He's making dolls and the likeness of the victims. He's delivering those dolls to the next victim. The doll comes to life kills the person and in the process repeats, basically. So now that he's killed those four main people, right, he starts expanding his list of targets to include their friends and family, I guess. I honestly got a little confused because more people are going to get killed and I didn't quite really understood why they were being killed. At some point, they did say that the curse included the family member. Yeah, I think Marina does give us speech. She gives a lot of exposition and we couldn't include all of it. She gives us speech about Until they're all dead and their families are all dead, then they'll come to recover the totem. Okay. Well, the next person who's killed is like a nurse, and this is interesting because I think she is the girlfriend of one of the four main men. Oh, okay. All right. That makes sense. She was in the original scene and I recognized her, but they didn't really make the connection super clear. All right. I thought he was just starting to take out random hospital staff and I was a little confused. No, I think she was she was dating one of the men. All right. Well, the cool part about her death, though, is that we see how the doll master makes new these infernal court dolls. He does that by dripping blood from a real heart that he's got in a container. Oh, yeah, on onto the doll and that blood splashes and brings the doll to life as as a murderous I might have put a very excited note in my notes here that says a heart in a jar with an exclamation point because we're suckers for a heart in a jar. Yes. We need to start tracking how many hearts and jars appear in these movies. Yes. Okay, so we get some more exposition from Karina as Karina and her boyfriend are bonded to discuss these deaths. And let's listen to this next bit because it has it's not really plot important, but I grabbed it just because it has one thing we have not heard yet in all of these zombie movies. Just now I talked to you about dolls being stuffed with needles, that act is part of the black magic of food. And decide, in ancient Egypt, a certain form of dolls used for wreaking revenge. In what way? They did the murdering. You mean the dolls? Perhaps you can tell us how they move about, Doctor. You mean what gives them life? Exactly. The spirit's due. When the witch doctor murders a man, black magic is the method he uses, making the wandering soul come to occupy a puppet's body. The dolls are obligated to obey. All? A few resisted. So a couple interesting things here. First, we get the hint, which is going to shortly be shown to be true, that some of the dolls are going to actually resist the doll master and fight back. But mostly, this is our first mention of Egypt, I think, and all of these movies as having some sort of mystical connection to zombie lore. Yes, that is interesting. And I think, I wonder, I mean, I think, you know, a lot of these older movies are a hodgepodge of myths thrown together. So, so I think we have a little mummy myth here, uh, worked in with our, with our dolls, but it's the Hollywood mummy myth spliced in with this Egyptian myth. So I just thought that was interesting. Obviously, you know, Egyptian magic has nothing to do with at all to do with voodoo. Right. But this, uh, this was, I just liked the Egyptian thing. And in fact, later, I thought for most of my notes, I called the zombie a mummy because that's what I thought it was. Yeah, it comes out of an Egyptian style circle. I put the same note in and then later here first through this zombie and I was like, Oh, okay, Gotcha. Exactly. That could be the translation, who knows what it was in Spanish. That's true. That's a very good point. Yes. So, Karina just completely takes charge of the movie at this point. Like she's just bossing people around. She knows what to do. She gets the police to to guard the families of the the Just kind of an action scene that happens next, that I struggled a little bit to make out what was going on. Yes. So it's just when she goes to the villains layer by herself. Well, this is the police are like on stake out and they see a super tall creepy looking guy. They're not the police though. They're the henchmen or the police of one of the other guys. Yeah, guys, it's clearly a mobster and they're his henchmen. Oh, are they okay? Well, a group of just utterly indistinguishable guys in suits are like on stake out. I think and they spot a super tall creepy guy in a trench coat bringing a doll to the house that they're staking out right. So they chase after it in their car. Yep. and like there's a sequence of events I'm I didn't quite understand what happened but they get the doll in their car or something they do they get the so so they stopped the guy he drops the doll and runs and then they put the doll in the box in the back seat and the mobster is in the back seat he's the fourth guy and his two henchmen are driving and they start to follow the zombie with their car and well they're doing that the doll kills the guy in the back of the car. Yeah it's it's kind of great and we the doll comes to life kills the guy in the car and then it like leaps out of the moving car. Yeah and then and then there's some amazing scene where the car that's chasing it looks so fun. Yeah, it's pretty, I really enjoyed this this scene. But they now have a doll. Like the point of this is they have like a crushed doll that they can take back and Karina can do a little bit of forensics on this. So that's what they do. They take the doll back and they kind of do sort of an autopsies style Cutting open of the doll to invest. There's a little weird when they're cutting off his clothes like it was a person in the hospital There's a little strange, but the important thing is they also find out they trail the guy and they know where the voodoo witch doctor's layer is Is that how they feel because later Karina's gonna go to the voodoo layer and I could not figure out how she knew her because that's where the sound because Okay, there is a cool special effect while they're autopsying the doll and you see the court of hair like snake into its head. Yes. So that was kind of cool. Yeah. And there's also a moment when Karina almost becomes hypnotized by the doll. Oh, is that what's happening? Okay. Yep. And she fights it off, but she acknowledges that it was happening. Yes. And then she smashes the doll and burns it. While that's going on, more people are getting killed by other dolls. At one point, four dolls debate whether to kill the little girl, she's walking across the living room with a glass of water, and they decide not to. I didn't mention that. Yes. So, Karina mentioned earlier that some dolls will resist, and there was an earlier mansion and are retrieving the idol. Yes. And the little girl walks by and one of the dolls makes to go kill her. But the second doll like wrestles with it and holds it back. So this is going to be important for this movie's resolution as well that some of the dolls really hate what they're being forced to do is. Yes. Um, but that said, more people are getting killed. So a man and a nurse are killed, just some relation of these people, I guess. The nurse is the girlfriend we already mentioned. Oh, right, right, right, right, right. And the other one's like a henchman. And at the murder scene, they find a pair of child's glasses, which, of course, are sized well for a creepy nightmare. Yes. And so Karina takes charge and we're actually, entering kind of the final stage of this movie because Karina is going to go off on her own and break into the voodoo temple. Yes. And like there's a man with her and he tries to talk her out of it and she just won't have any of it. And he doesn't like go along to help her or anything. She's just like, look, I'm doing this. And he stays behind. And then she breaks into this world's creepiest mansion. She breaks in through a window. And can you tell us, John, a little bit about what does she find when she breaks inside? Well, she finds the layer of a witch doctor and here's a note that I put in all caps. If you're in a villain's layer and you see a sarcophagus, look inside it, otherwise whatever's in there is going to come get you and I think the reason you might have thought this was a mummy is the zombie is in the sarcophagus. Yeah, so it's chasing her around, but yes, it's like a mad scientist layer again, but it's all magic, right? It's got altars and sarcophagus and all this stuff. it's like this house of horses got this like smorgasburg of uh just a cult stuff there's like creepy heads there's creepy skeleton skulls hanging down there's like a throne that the yeah and there is a sarcophagus and with Egyptian hyperglyphics over it and so as of course it must well Karina is facing away from it the sarcophagus slowly opens and what do we see inside John we see are zombie. And he has very interesting practical effect makeup. It looks like his face is like melted. He's like kind of strange monster. And he comes shriveled. Shriveled. Yeah. And he, uh, and, and the, the zombie comes out and starts to stalk her. around the house. This zombie isn't like gross and rotten the way some of the other ones we've seen are, but this is like the fourth movie in a row where they clearly put effort into making the zombie look pretty gnarly, I would say. So it looks pretty cool. It comes out of the sarcophagus. and then it creeps up behind her and grabs her, but she is saved by none other than the doll master himself. That's right. So John, do you want to describe, I've been calling them the doll master. We should probably call them the zombie master. Can you describe them for us? Well, and in the movie, they call them the witch doctor. He has this sort of long prince valiant haircuts and a sort of evil little beard and moustache and he's wearing like a black satin like what I want to say. It's almost like a narrow jacket that goes down and it's got like a white snakes across it and he hypnotizes her and he has these staring eyes that he uses. That's like his superpower. And it's just, it's like a total flashback to Bellulagosi steering eyes for sure all the way back in white zombie like that's clearly the inspiration. Yes, so when he's hypnotizing Karina, you see this close up of his steering eyes and his piercing gaze and he Yeah, this is where he identifies what I thought was the mummy as a zombie. Right. And he kind of does a, he kind of does a big villain monologue here. He kind of shows off his dolls to Karina, we see that he punishes the disobedient dolls by standing them through with those still let open. Yeah, which is pretty nasty. Yeah, it is. So he's a jerk. So let's hear his zombie master monologue. I possess knowledge related to the most ancient sciences and your science is nothing as compared to what you see. It's quite true. Only I know who commands the dark forces of death and malach. And all the occult forces gathered around with the sound of my voice. Very, very dramatic, and I almost certain that the voice of the original actor was better than that. I'll bet any amount of money. Yeah, the, uh, it's no, uh, Ian, what is that guy? Ian, yeah. Yeah. Uh, so I did love several times he's sneering at how dumb sciences compared to his cool, cool powers. And he keeps using the, he uses the word stupid. Many tests to describe science and like stupid has just been a theme. But I think the last, this is the third movie in the row where the villain has gone on the heroes are. So, I don't know. Maybe, you know, I was thinking about that since our last episode, I remember as a kid, my parents didn't want me to use the word stupid, directed at other people. Yeah, yeah, maybe it was just a harsher term back then. I think so. Also, he refers to his powers as ancient science. So there's this idea of of magic being indistinguishable from science in the ancient world that they are one, and that's sort of a theme we've been seeing lately as well. Yes. So this scene ends when he lets Karina go. You forgot the most important prop in his evil layer, though, and how he hypnotizes her. Oh, the disco ball hanging from his ceiling. Yes, there's a muck amidst all the skulls and sarcophagi. There's a spinning disco ball. Yes, I don't think it was a disco ball at the time. I would suppose that there's some cultural heritage that has like this ball with mirrored pieces in it and that was later adopted by discos. Let's just assume that, but he has one, whatever you want to call it. I don't know if I'm buying that John, but sure, well, well, we know disco didn't exist yet in April 1961. I think they just had that ball and I thought it was cool, but what do I know? So we do see a sign, so he basically usher's carina out, yes. As she goes one of the disobedient doll kind of reaches out pleadingly to her, kind of gesturing for help, but she's still hypnotized. He osures her out and keep in mind it's because the dolls still have the spirits, even though they're controlled, they still have the spirits of the people who they represent. That's right. So the zombie master, he does intend to kill her, but he wants her to be murdered away from his temples so that suspicion isn't. drawn to this creepy imagine the police coming into this this mansion by the way yeah uh it doesn't it wouldn't be super good for the doll unfortunately there's no police in this movie well they do talk about that they say don't call the police how do we explain this and the gangsters says my men can handle it I thought the gangster was the police through this whole movie so clearly I wasn't no he's just very concerned he's a gangster but doesn't want the police around So he ships Karina off. I thought at first she went home, but I think she goes, is she like living in the hospital? I think they're all just laying in the hospital. In the hospital, like she goes in the hospital. Yeah, I think she makes no sense. So I would like to say from a production standpoint, we have taken a little step back in the sense that like these sets clearly don't have like ceilings. You know, they're clearly like three wall sets and that's, you know, and it just looks a little bit more like a TV show. You know, but it's definitely more competent then like a teenage zombies, you know, it's, there's a spectrum of competence here. This is not near the bottom, but it's also not near the top. So this scene is clearly setting up that she's about to be menaced by something awful because she's kind of relaxing and she's lounging around in bed. On the street outside, the zombie is faring not one, but two creepy dolls towards Karina. And the zombie is intercepted by a bunch of these interchangeable guys, and they try to stop the zombie. Yeah, they shoot it. they take a bunch of, they shoot it a bunch of times. Nothing happened, it just takes them all out. It strides really aggressively towards them, it throws them down. I don't know if it's supposed to be killing them or just toss them aside. I think it kills at least one. The one of the one it looks like was killed does come back later. So this is a pretty cool scene. They like interrupt the zombie well. It's bringing the dolls. It like puts the dolls down and kills and just takes out the guys in like 30 seconds and then resumes it's journey. And then this zombie moves like a regular person too. It doesn't lumber around. It moves like the motions in the sway of a human. But it doesn't speak. We do get a name for the zombie at the end of this movie. Did you guys catch that? I didn't. I heard it, but I can't remember it. I think it sounded like suboed. So anyway, not that important. The zombie drops off the dolls and they creep into Carina's hospital room where she's living for whatever reason. They brandished the let us and approach her and she is just paralyzed on the bed. Now it makes more sense. I didn't understand why she was just laying there in her while they approach to very, very slowly. But if they are hypnotizing her, which I think they are because there's a bunch of close-ups of her face. Yeah, and I think this is also in the attempt to sexualize her, right? They zoom in on her eyes and then her lips and like we're supposed to sort of savor her fear. So there's a little bit of that. that sort of yeah you know we talked about this in the past it'll be something in our 70s and 80s movies that combination of sexuality and horror that started to seep into these movies and I think this scene is all about that. Yeah I think that's a good insight John. So the dolls are interrupted before they can stab Karina by somebody else I think his name was Elfonso or something. Yes. I don't know who this was. He comes in he gets stabbed uh he gets kind of But then the dolls be a hasty retreat, and yeah, they don't explain this, but they grab the sorcerer's ladder, the nodded piece of hair and leave. So I, again, they don't spill it out, but I think that this by planting this sorcerer's ladder on somebody, it summons the dolls, they become the victim and once they've killed, they leave. So maybe she just lucked out because they killed somebody and felt they'd done their duty. okay yeah that could be i didn't really understand why they left but then we're down to the final minutes of this movie and carina despite having just spent a whole scene being a hapless victim is going to take charge again she asserts that they can indeed kill this zombie they will need to use a special weapon against the unless you're in love this line prenaturally the carina talking but boss the zombies immune to our bullets how can you kill it The zombies you know are the devil's creatures, but they fear fire because that in itself represents the awful fate that eternity hasn't stored within. That's pretty great. That is a neat little detail. Yes. So they go to the temple, Karina, so that means so they bring torches to use against the zombie. They all, Karina and a bunch of the guys head to the Vudu temple to confront the doll master. But what they learn when they get there that is long as you have eye contact with the doll master, he can hypnotize. Or if you've ever had eye contact. So even if you had it and look away, like your his creature. that's right. And so he hypnotizes all of them forces them to stand still and to drop their weapon and their torches. They have three torches with them. That's right. And so then he summons the zombie and the dolls all start approaching to finish off our hapless paralyzed heroes. This is where he orders them to drop their torches because we see the zombie both the zombie and the dolls like recoiling from the torchlight. Then he tells them to put the torches down. and he's gloating in kind of typical villan style and he notices that Karina has her hand in her pocket as if she is about to pull something out of it. And in a little impulse of decision that I bet in that he looked back at later as having been a tactical era. He's like, he's like, nothing can defeat me. I am absolutely invincible. So just take whatever's in your pocket out. It won't So, but what, so I did not know what she was going to produce. I did not get there on, but what it is is very interesting if you've been listening to this podcast for the last 30 episodes. Yeah. What is it? It is a cross. And not just any cross, but a Catholic cross with a crucified Christ on it. Yes, it's our first crucifix, I think, certainly we talked a couple of episodes ago. We started noticing that Christianity had not been weaponized against zombies the way it's weaponized against other supernatural horror threats. Right. But here we have a straight old like brandish the cross as if you were wording off of vampire. Sure. On the zombies and the dolls. It does, it seems to like break the control the zombie master has over the dolls because the dolls rush Adam and stab him or at least one of them does. Yeah. And so dying he's been stabbed and he's staggering you and dying and he's like I'm gonna take you all with me and he starts setting the place on fire with one of the torches but they all flee from the burning temple and then the words the end appear on the screen. Yes, they all drive off in the car. did I miss anything about that final scene? No, I liked it and it was sort of the only time where there was any action. I mean, there was, you know, some of the problem with a lot of the scenes in this movie are like we're describing these creepy dolls and the dolls do look creepy, but what they do is they mind the dolls like that like somebody's lying in bed so the dolls come up and they have to climb up on the chest the foot of the bed and then at the climb into the bed and they drain the tension out of it by being sort of very meticulous about how they depict it happening, right? Instead of doing an a modern movie, which would do quick cuts or something, or have the dolls leap onto the bed, they sort of show the whole thing. And I think that's part that and the dub dubbing fully flattened this movie for me. Yeah, I mean, there's a very fine line between drying out a scene and making and just ratcheting the suspense suspense and the tension up to really unbearable level. Right. And but if you kind of cross over that line, you just have a really long scene where the dolls take forever to walk across the room and you're bored by the time they get to the victim. Yeah. And unfortunately, this movie, I think falls on the wrong side of that line and a number Hey, John, how about we wrap this up by going through our question? Yes, sounds good. John, in Curse of the Doll people, is there a hero party? I think so. I think it's Karina, her husband and any of the surviving people who, yeah, there's like a rotating band of like survivors. Yes, I would start with the four couples at the top. Yeah, they're eight of them plus Karina and her husband. and how does the party do, how many survive? I think only four, creator her husband, that one of the original four men does live. He does get stabbed by the doll in the car, but he actually survives. Yeah, and then there's another person there, and I don't know who they are ahead. The exact kill count. I kind of lost track of the exact kill count, but I think like five is, yeah, I would say that's right. Because yeah, there's somebody in the hospital that just gets killed because they're there. And then yeah, it's at least five maybe six. And what kind of zombie strain are we dealing with in this movie? John, we are dealing with two different strains. We have a zombie raised from the dead, which is our sort of zombie mummy. And then we have these tall people, which are kind of like zombies, but not exactly. They sort of, you know, like old movies don't have the clear definitions we expect. So I think, I think we've got two strains here. They're all mystically created, however. Yeah, is there anything new about these zombie strains? I think the idea of having the spirit, having your spirit trapped within a zombie-like creature like these dolls, that feels new. Because you're dead, but your spirit is trapped inside this vessel. And you, like, still know who you are, but you have lost your agency. I don't know, that felt new to me. What did you think? I think so. And there's this is not the first movie that is suggested that the zombies that the person that's spirit or the soul inside the zombie might be fighting against the orders of the zombie mask. Yes, for sure. But I think it is the first one where the controlled beings truly turn on their master as this this much is that would you agree with that? Yeah, Bellagosi has orders his zombie to kill in what's the one is it? White zombie, he orders the woman to kill her fiancee. Yeah, there's one where the zombie kills him. It's not Frankenstein. It's not evidence to tell me, Frankenstein. Is it it might be? Well, there's King of, no, revenge of the zombies in the swamp, where the zombies killed the mad scientist. at any rate. I don't think this is a, is that different than what you're thinking. Andy. Well, I would just wanted to say, like this feels, uh, we see the, uh, struggle against the zombie masters control on the screen way more vividly than we have seen it in past movies. I'm not saying this is the first time this concept appeared in these movies. Okay. You know, we were talking about a hero party and I wanted to call one out one of the I do think the character of Karina is really, I think she is kind of a first, Mary and Ghostbreakers, and I think, I think Mary and Ghostbreakers is the only person, the only woman protagonist in these films that has come close to having her assertive, go get them attitude, and, I really enjoyed her character and I think that she become, I mean, who knows who took this in RAM with it but it feels like she is a model for future hero parties with a strong leader who sort of knows what to do, that's the mode she fits into here. absolutely. I said at the beginning that she is kind of like the van Helsing. Yes, of this movie, but typically you will have like a wise van Helsing or a Gandalf or whoever figure that gives you the lore and the background and the information you need in order to beat the bad guy. Right. But she is both the source of knowledge and the main protagonist actually going after the bad guy, which is I don't know. This is kind of different. Yeah. All right. John, are there any, do we talk about this? Are there any like first zombie firsts in this movie that we haven't touched on now? I don't think so. I think I think the the the harnessing of the of the dead person spirit into a doll that resembles them is freaky and weird. I don't know that that's a zombie first. I don't know. I'm I'm Yeah, I agree with you. And it is, it's pretty visually effective. It doesn't quite feel like a first here. We've been dancing around this in other movies, I think. Yeah, I think so. So let's move on to your four pillars of the zombie genre. How many of these are we going to find in curse of the all people, John? Is there an apocalypse in this movie? No, there is not. Is there contagion in this movie? No. People can get turned into a zombie, but it still requires the intervention of a zombie master or witch doctor in this case. Yeah, the zombies themselves do not cannot pass on their curse or their infection. Are their tough moral choices in this movie? I think so, I think, you know, even if it's just the dull people not killing the young girl, I think there's people conflicted about how they should behave in the new in the new circumstance. You know what I mean? I, yeah. I do think this is our, this is our first movie where the tough moral choices were made by the zombies. Yes. I would say that's true. So you'll say kind it. We'll say yes, dish to that one. And lastly, does this movie feature loved ones turning against you? So that one for sure is a yes, but it does it in a weird way. So the spirit of your loved one is trapped in a doll that resembles them, and then they try to kill you. I mean, I think that counts, but it's just weird in a delightful way. All right, and lastly, John, we didn't talk about the poster earlier, but does the poster for this movie sell it accurately, do you think? between last episode and this one, I should have translated the words on this post or I wish I had. Yeah, the post is just a little weird, it looks like a scary post, you're, I'll say yes, it does. Yeah. Okay. I'll go with that. I don't really know what the poster is exactly going for. So, you know what John, I did skip a question. It was how our zombies killed and they are, we know that they are vulnerable to fire, but otherwise, in vulnerable. Right. Right. Yeah. So, um, is paranoia a major theme in this movie conformity? dark secrets. I don't think so. It's not a dark secret if you invite people over for a dinner party until them all about how you stole the idol. Yeah, exactly. That may be dark. It's not a secret. I mean, certainly that would be kind of the dark side of this age of internationalization and exploration and stuff. But it doesn't feel like it's presented like that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, how will our heroes change? Will they get younger, less professional, more diverse? these feel pretty in line with the sorts of heroes you'd find in like at 1940s zombie movie i think they are young professionals yes a couple of them are older but the you know korean is really are hero and she looks you know i don't know i don't know how she's gotten this Yeah, it does take the trope of sort of, you know, in the 50s we had a lot of daughters of the scientist hanging around. Here we don't have that scientist looming over her and she is both the that sort of young person and the wise person wrapped into one. I don't know what else has been going on in film outside the zombie genre, but this is a really confident, assertive female lead who is not like questioned or belittled by the man around her, I mean they They recognize her expertise and they do what she says usual. Yeah, and actually this funny in one of the clips you played her husband asks a question. She's like, that just means this dear. Like, she's actually kind of sending to him and I, I found that funny and a little Brad laughed when we played that clip right at that moment. And I, yeah, for sure. All right, what's next? Will science and sci-fi take on a new role in zombie movies? And see this one carefully, because I think it's, it's interesting. Well, this movie is not a science zombie movie and they don't really use technology to deal with the zombie menace. Though Karina is a scientist, she claims to be a scientist multiple times and she has the knowledge to defeat the curse. Yes, that's true. And I mean, this movie, I mean, it's very unsettled in with its modern scientific worldview versus traditional magical worldview. I mean, right, both Karina and the villain deliver monologues about. How in our confidence in modern science, we have lost our respect for the old ways that defy science blah, blah, we have heard this speech in a good number of movies at this point, so it didn't feel new to me, but it's certainly true that Karina is a modern scientific like she's someone who would look at the evidence and come to a conclusion and hypothesize how to deal with the zombies and and then adjust her approach based on how on the results. Like she seems like a modern scientific hero. Yes, she does. So does the genre leave its local roots in the Caribbean and move into the broader world stage. This is another interesting one. So, yes. I mean, this is a Mexican movie. It appears to be set in Mexico and we do talk about Haiti, but we also talk about Egypt. So Haiti gets mentioned the most, but we get that intriguing little mention of Egypt. So this does feel this does feel like a more global sort of You know, this feels a little more global, I guess that said, I don't think it's really taking any great strides on this in this direction. Okay. All right. And so John, last couple of questions here that we always wrap up our questions, our episodes with, we do and I survive in this zombie world. So I think I wouldn't steal an idol and come under a curse. But let's say I did. hypothetically. I think I wouldn't. If the if the dollars can hypnotize you, I think they get me because they're pretty sneaky. I think so too. It's a hypnotizing that doesn't exist. If they couldn't hypnotize you, they'd be pretty easy to evade. But yeah, I'm with you. If they got into my house, I mean, I would also not accept the package that had a doll of this creepy look, but assuming I did and it got in my house, I would probably be touched. Is this a zombie movie, John? Or is this a movie with zombies? I'm gonna say it's a zombie movie because it has two kinds of zombies and they're absolutely central to the plot. Yep, I agree. And their zombie nature is integral to the plot. It's part of the story. Yes. All right, and then lastly, John, I'm really interested how you're going to answer this question. Do you recommend this movie first, generally, as a movie that's worth watching? And secondly, do you recommend it specifically to our Legion of Zombie Loving Fans? So I'm going to say, generally, no, because the dubbing and the sort of flatness that that brings and some of the slowness to the moon, slowness to the moon, we did make it a hard watch. But for zombie fans, there's so many great ideas and moments in this movie. I think it's worth it. So I'm going to go no general yes zombie fans. I'm going to agree with you on that one. I'll maybe give it. My is a definite no for me on is it what? Worth watching generally. It's fine, but it's like you say it's low budget. It's got a lot of issues. It's kind of slow It's just kind of hard to recommend. I want to give it a soft yes though for zombie fans. I don't think this is like vital watching to understand the zombie genre, but it is an interesting little side trek into this whole creepy doll's business, which is its own separate horror genre. Yes, and I think, you know, just the bit where the doll is delivered and then you realize the evil doll is sleeping with the daughter, like that's creepy enough for horror fans to see, because I don't it could have been done in another horror movie that we haven't seen, but it's the first time we've sort of seen that. This did make me wonder what the first creepy doll horror movie was. I didn't do my research to find out. Yeah, I'm very curious. Like, is this start of that genre or are there other ones first? Because it's a line from here to child's play, you know? Yeah, for sure. There's a Twilight Zone, probably more than one Twilight Zone with some creepy dolls. And that was in the 50s, right? Yes, so anyway, the idea has been around. Okay. Well, now it's time for the scariest part of the episode. And this is where producer Brad reveals to us what we will be watching next for our next movie. Let's stay in Mexico. All right. And let's watch this. Here's your poster. Yes. All right. We've been waiting for this one. So John, please describe this fantastic poster. We have featured on it at an angle standing with his white mask shirtless, but with his white trunks, the famous Luchelibre Cento, who is not just a wrestler. He's a superhero, and he's going to save us from the zombies while probably doing some wrestling. So he's featured. There's a woman looking stressed out. There are some zombies in the upper right that are sort of wandering towards him, and he is wrestling at the bottom, and then there's a giant question mark in the middle of it. Scientists are the whole thing, and we'll talk about it next time, because it is a cultural, like milestone or sort of stake in the ground for Mexican culture at this time. So Santo is the saint. His theme is he rescues people, he saves the downtrodden. So Santo is a saint and he's a wrestler and apparently he's gonna take on somes out, please. I am more excited about producer Brad's background for this movie than any movie we've seen. I know. Did you see the name in the bottom right of the poster? Oh, it's the same direct. Ah, that's right. Same direct. Yeah, we need to. All is rocky. Yes. What I do know is Santa movies aren't necessarily, uh, uh, you know, high budget, but, um, they are important as well. Say, I have so many questions, but I'll save them for next episode. Outstanding. Well, folks, thank you. We'll catch you next time. And keep in mind, all of us have, uh, another podcast. Mine is called The Splatbook and it was yours. Mine is called Roll for Topic. And I'm on multiplex over thruster watching movies of the early 80s. Alright, thanks everybody. You've been listening to zombie strains. We'll be back next episode to talk about another zombie movie. If you enjoyed our podcast, please take a moment to rate us in your podcast Apple choice. Tell a friend, follow us on Instagram at zombie strains. All of this helps like-minded people find the show. See you next time.