For those who forgot, the show is called Satan's Alley.

It's a journey through hell.

It ends with an ascent to heaven.

And you might think it's simple, but if it's going to work, you got to bust your asses.

Paul, I think that's true of all things in life. You think it's simple, but if it's going to work, you got to bust your ass. This is advice for the centuries.

There are life lessons galore in today's film.

A little something called Staying Alive, a sequel to the famous Saturday Night Fever, the movie that changed the face of popular culture in 1976, I believe, right?

Yes, this one, slightly less so.

No, it did not change the face of popular culture. I think it might have punched it.

Yeah, it is a very unique curiosity of a film sequel, some might say misguided film sequel, trying to accomplish two daring leaps.

But such different goals, it literally is a film at war with itself, really, isn't it?

Yes, on the one hand, we are trying to catapult Tony Manero from the 70s into the 80s.

And into Broadway stardom.

And also from Brooklyn to Broadway.

Yes, yes.

And that's kind of the movie and, well, I mean, there's so many things in this movie that broke my brain before I even started watching it.

Oh, wow.

Yes. But the other thing that strikes me in terms of its epic ambition, it endeavors to catapult none other than Frank Stallone into the same echelon of the Bee Gees.

First of all, let's just get to it. I'm Javier Grillo-Marxuach.

And I'm Paul Alvarado-Dykstra.

And this is Multiplex Overthruster Summer of 83.

Paul, there's two things. Before we get into The Frank Stallone, because the whole Frank Stallone thing in this is fascinating.

It's insane. It's almost deserving of its own podcast episode.

This film is literally the Frank Factor. Like if we just literally got an ayahuasca circle together in a sweat lodge and manifested the Frank Factor with our minds.

So the way I notated it to myself, again, in no way, shape or form, in the farthest reaches of my imagination, when we first unleashed the Frank Factor in our debut episode, Covered in Rocket 3. And did we ever.

And did we ever.

And it has since come to covet a very honorable spot on now our unofficial bingo card.

Yes, not every movie gets the Frank Factor.

No.

And yes, we do have a bingo card, a very nice man named Colby Elliott. Go to our page on Blue Sky and you will see the bingo card.

Yes, it'll be on Instagram by the time this posts. But never did I imagine that just one summer later, we would be in a multiplex, metaphorically speaking, experiencing what I can only describe as the apotheosis of the Frank Factor.

It is. It is literally like, like it is if the Frank Factor read the secret, this is the film that happened. You know what I'm saying? You know, I want to also just, you know, Paul, initially, I said to myself, this film is a Frank Fantasmagoria. But, here's the thing, I feel like you, because in a previous episode, I called someone a Fantasmagoria, I knew very bitterly, went, oh no, this is not a Fantasmagoria. So I feel like you're kind of like-

I think it was more decisive than bitter. I just have very strong opinions and clear standards of what does and does not constitute a Fantasmagoria.

I was there and I know what I saw.

Can we make a graphic so the rest of us can understand?

Well, that's what I want to say is that Paul is kind of the UN Security Council of Fantasmagoria. So only he can say whether this was Frank Stallone Fantasmagoria.

I would characterize my position more as the UN High Commissioner of Fantasmagoria.

Like the Butros Butros Ghali of Fantasmagoria.

Maybe, but I will say as a bit of foreshadowing for our listeners-

From you? No, never.

This film does, in a sense startling way, unleash a genuine Fantasmagoria in its third act.

Oh, does it? Oh my God. No, it isn't fat. Well, it-

A Fantasmagoria of flesh.

A Fantasmagoria of Fantasmagoria. But Paul, here's the thing though. The problem with the Fantasmagoria at the end of this is that a Fantasmagoria was staged but it was not filmed like a Fantasmagoria. It was filmed like a boxing match. And it's a very-

The biggest-

Not the biggest problem, because I think that scientists could get together in a bunker for years and not figure out the biggest problem with this movie. But among the legion of issues-

There's a lot of scientists available right now.

Oh, sadly.

Sadly.

And sadly, not a lot of bunkers. You know what? Let me just get on to what this movie is about and we can talk about it, okay? Yes, let's do it. According to our script, we should first quickly discuss the importance of this film to each of us. It's just had no importance to me whatsoever. Paul, does this film have any...

Did you see it before?

No. Never in a million years.

I've never seen it.

No.

Avoided the darkest, deadliest plague.

I was just going to say that at this point in the summer of 82, we had watched Blade Runner, Poltergeist, The Thing, The Road Warrior, Star Trek 2, and wow, the summer of 83 is just one shit sandwich after another, isn't it?

I mean, it is a different ticket of theme park ride, the summer of 83, the summer of 82. And we were spoiled right out of the gate with Return of the Jedi and earlier, you know, The Hungry.

Oh, but we're paying for that.

We're paying for it, Paul.

We're paying hard.

We're paying in crazy, mind-boggling ways.

I would argue that this movie is the result of 82.

Do go on, producer Brad.

Travolta wanted Stallone because he saw Rocky III and he liked that film, and he wanted that for this film.

Wow. This is like the grandfather paradox where, like, you know, like somebody goes back in time and becomes their own grandmother, right?

So again, as I referenced earlier, and I know we haven't even done the whatever and the bell.

I'll cut you off and get on it, okay?

This movie breaks reality. And in the most fundamental way, foundationally, it does. Just from its very birth.

That must be why I'm nauseous.

You have a sequel to Saturday Night Fever.

Yes.

But it is John Travolta in a Sylvester Stallone film.

Yes.

Directed by Sylvester Stallone. Co-written.

Co-written by Sylvester Stallone.

Is one of the producers. What? Why?

How? With a soundtrack that favors Frank Stallone over the Bee Gees.

Yeah. And enormously so.

Enormously, right? Okay. Let me just recap. We'll go to the bell. We'll get this shit started. Because let me tell you, I fear we have a lot to say about this movie. And when I say fear, I mean it. Staying Alive tells the rousing stand-up, and it's actually the plot synopsis is pretty easy. It tells the rousing stand-up and cheer story of Tony Manero, who we remember as one of the near duels from Saturday Night Fever. However, in Saturday Night Fever, we may remember that he was very good at the discos, very good dancer. We catch him four years later. He has moved to Manhattan and he has been taking dance lessons, and he is now auditioning for Broadway shows left and right, getting a shit ton of rejection. One of the people he is with in this odyssey is his quasi-girlfriend Jackie, with whom he has a kind of non-monogamous relationship, but one that is slowly becoming more and more with the expectation of monogamy, because Jackie is falling in love with Tony. But Tony goes to see the show that Jackie is in and notices the lead dancer, who is played by Fenulah- Hughes. Hughes, yeah, Fenulah Flanagan. I gotta reach up with Fenulah Flanagan, but the thing is, I don't know who Fenulah Flanagan is, so there's a whole thing. Anyway, if anybody knows who Fenulah Flanagan is, tell me, because I don't even know. Or maybe I just like the literative names. Anyway, she's the lead dancer in the show, and Tony looks at her and immediately, even though his girlfriend's in the show goes and hits on her, they begin a little bit of a semi, not even tour, they begin sort of a thing. And it all comes to a head when all three of them get cast in a show called Satan's Alley, in which Jackie is a backup dancer, Fenulah Hughes is the main dancer, and Tony is at first a member of the chorus. But with Jackie's help, he worms his way to audition and overtake the leading man, Jesse, to become the lead dancer in the show. And now he's dancing with Fenulah Hughes, with whom he has a quasi-romantic affair, but he feels that she's using him, and she kind of is, except he's kind of getting feelings for her, but she really doesn't have feelings for him, or does she? But we know Jackie definitely has feelings for Tony. Anyway, the show premieres, Tony finally divests himself of Finola Hughes and commits fully to Jackie, and upon the show's triumphant premiere, Tony goes out onto the streets and struts to the theme from Saturday Night Fever, Staying Alive. Because he's so excited about the show being a hit or him premiering or something, I don't know. Something like that? Is that something in the film?

More or less, more or less. There's more, but let's ring the bell.

There's more, but does it fucking matter, Paul? I mean, that's the problem.

Oh, oh it does, oh it does.

When you're working with Paul Alvarado-Dykstra, if that is your name, there's always more.

There's so much more.

There's so much more. Okay, let's just, let's hope your lactose intolerance doesn't enter into this one. Producer Brad, let's hear the bell.

Ding, ding.

Finola Flanagan is an Irish actress working since the 60s. She was in Waking Ned Devine, The Others, and she was in Star Trek Next Duration in the 80s, I think.

Who did she play, please?

I should have known you would ask. Hold on. I have it up.

We would know this. Producer Brad, look at who you're with.

Yeah, saying on episode does not help us.

Yeah, but if you were to say she was in The Drumhead or Chains of Command or Tapestry or...

She was in 1993 in Inheritance, Dr. Juliana Taner.

Inheritance. Which one was that one?

See, now you guys are stumped. This is the best.

Okay, now we're stumped. That's the best. Tell us the episode. We know episode names. We have no fucking idea. Alright, so guys, the movie starts and it is a montage of auditions. It's sort of like a chorus line.

Can I?

May I? No, I'm doing this one. I'm doing it. No, because I know what you're good at and I'm going to say it.

No, you don't.

No, you don't. Yes, I do. The best thing in this movie happens in the first two minutes during the opening titles and you know what it is? It is the appearance of the great. The great. Yes. Well, that's what I was going to say. Well, I'm going to say it.

Well, I have something before what you're going to say.

All right.

Oh, my God. OK, go on. If it's if it's the thing I was going to say, I'm going to be very upset.

Paul.

Oh, you have no idea the things I'm bringing into this episode. Go ahead.

Go, go, go into it.

Well, since producer Brad brought up a connection, I literally I literally can't get into the opening titles. No, you can't. You can't. Because and I'm only doing this because producer Brad opened the door to Star Trek The Next Generation. And do you know who designed the main titles to? Staying Alive, Maurice Binder, Dan Curry, visual effects supervisor of Star Trek The Next Generation. And then Deep Space Island Voyager who then also did titles for things like Top Gun and Big Trouble, Little China, Howard the Duck, Fatal Attraction. Yeah, but yeah, we have this neon laser title like glory.

But you know, here's the thing. This actually really, you know, Paul, usually I would, I would rip you a new one over the, the, the, the pivot, but.

A new Satan's Alley?

Yes, a new Satan's Alley. Okay, don't, don't preempt me. That's my, that's my shtick. That's my shtick.

You got that.

The truth. No, no, no, I love it.

The foreshadowing.

No, no, the foreshadowing because the musical is called Satan's Alley and that's the thing that is so fucking like, they must have known that Satan's Alley is a euphemism for anal sex, right? Or for the place where anal sex is performed or for a place where gay men get together perhaps to negotiate that particular act. So Paul, did they know this when they wrote this movie or were they just tone-deaf ignorant people?

So as shocking as it may or may not be, I did not know this and I was delighted by the illumination you offered by text earlier and I intended to go down the rabbit hole of contemporaneous reviews for the film to see if anyone else at the time had made that observation.

Yeah.

I did not, but I only scratched the surface of reviews which included a hilariously ruthless review by Roger Ebert who gives this film one star and it's really funny.

But what I want to say about your pivot is that actually makes me happy because I do think the title design in this movie is interesting. They didn't use it for the posters or anything, but when you start talking about Top Gun Fatal Attraction, those are title designs that showed up on the one sheet at the beginning of the movie. They're actually, Fatal Attraction is quite iconic, so all of them, so that's actually awesome. But I was going to say, during this montage where Tony Manero is unsuccessfully auditioning for a bunch of things, the first show he's auditioning for, and the one that covers most of this opening title scene, is the director of the show who's judging the actors, is the great Kurtwood Smith, aka Clarence Bautiker, aka the president of the Federation in Star Trek 6, aka the dad from that 70s show, right? One of the great character actors of all time. And the film promises Clarence Bautiker will be in it, and he's not. He literally is not in it after the title sequence, and that is a tragedy, that is a travesty.

It is, and I just want to take a, take a, and I know I do this, but this is worth it. A moment to appreciate. We're not just getting Kurtwood Smith. We're getting Kurtwood Smith, who is dressed like a track coach.

Right, right, he's wearing like this satin jacket, but it looks sort of like, it's like whoa, what is happening? I actually think he looks like a track coach. I think he looks like a guy who'd be wearing a headphone and stroker ace, you know, in the pit. He looks like one of the pit guys. Could be like doing telemetry with the Nascar guy. He looks, he doesn't, but he is, yeah go ahead.

Since you opened the stroker ace door.

Oh God. Do go on.

This film shares its cinematographer.

I know!

Nick McClain with stroker ace.

And by the way, he did about as good a job in this movie as he did with stroker ace. I mean, just wow.

Just to be fair to him, he later would do The Goonies and Short Circuit and Spaceballs and Mack and Me, which is a milestone. But can you imagine for a moment what it would be like if you are a on the rise cinematographer or a department head of any kind?

Of a camera department of any reputable...

And you've got two big movies with two of the biggest stars in the world.

You shot the Burt Reynolds movie for The Summer 83 and the John Travolta comeback movie for The Summer 83.

Yes, directed by freaking Sylvester Stallone, Rocky.

Come on, right?

And you're like, I am king of the world. I am having the time of my life. This is the biggest deal ever. And they open within a month or so of each other. But there are these two films. Yes.

You know, Paul, I hope the check's cleared. That's all I can say.

Paul, in the-

Can I ask a question?

We have not gotten past the title sequence, guys.

No, no, but it's-

Here's an updated list of people who are murdering me right now. Producer Brad and Paul Alvarado-Dykstra. Go ahead, Producer Brad, please.

When the title sequence started-

Oh, we're back at the title sequence.

Oh, shit.

And the music came in, you know, Far From Over by Frank Stallone.

That song gets a huge workout in this movie. It's on it like five times. Yeah, okay.

And then the title of the movie flies at us. This has to be the most 80s movie we have seen, going back all the way through 82.

You know, I would say that The Hunger, now, the quality of the movie aside-

Hunger is up there too.

The opening of The Hunger is pretty freaking 80s, but I think this is a different 80s, because The Hunger is like the upscale nightclubs of New York in 83, whereas this feels like much scuzzier. And that's actually something I want to bring up about. Okay, okay, let me just say my point about the opening titles so we can just get past the opening titles, guys, please. The opening titles-

I was talking about the opening titles.

In addition to showing us some great 80s fashion and-

Lots of headbands.

Lots of headbands, lots of shoulder pads, lots of leg warmers. And promising us the Clarence Botterker as an autocratic theatre director movie that we never got. The most frightening credit in this film is finale costumes by Bob Mackie. It just- it's literally like- this movie is saying, look, the costumes up until the finale, you can have your own opinion about them, but wait till you see the finale because we're gonna serve you up a cheeseburger the size of Ohio. I mean, Bob Mackie is the cheese master general. I mean, I love his work, but it is cheese. It is queso grande.

Yeah.

I mean, what an example and deployment of lighting a fuse of anticipation from the outset to an attentive audience who is going to see that credit and have that in their mind, the whole movie thinking, okay, I'm seeing a lot of crazy shit and a lot of very questionable fashion choices, but I have clearly not seen anything yet because I've been promised Bob Mackie greatness in the finale. And boy, does he come to, you know.

Yeah.

No, I actually made a note about it, and I'm trying to find it because it's so just it is literally like, God, I need to find this because it's the, you know, we'll get to it when we talk about the finale. Do we have time? I don't think so. I think we've spent all of it. But anyway, Paul, this movie.

As Frank Stallone said, this is far from over.

It's far from over. It's far from over. You know, should we just trigger a Frank Factor just to get it out of the way?

I think we should save it. We should save it.

We should save it.

Until he arrives.

Okay. Okay. Well, the thing about the opening title. The opening titles are to Frank's music.

But we've already passed that. All right. We don't want to overdo it.

In our bingo card, there is a slot that says, questionable deployment of the Frank Factor.

So I'm just saying, okay.

Exactly. And now we're having a meta conversation with our own bingo card. But I want to point out the aesthetic that's established in this first rehearsal sequence. So lots of leotards, lots of all the stuff we've talked about, hair, whatever. Also, we get a lot of weird freeze framing. Like, yeah, there's just, and I...

I think that, look, I think that the thing with this movie, if I may, Paul, because I think I can articulate something that is actually close to what you're going to be talking about or not. This movie is a movie at war with itself. Fundamentally, on a very existential level. Now, Stallone, you know, started his career doing, obviously, Rocky, which is a very, very drab slice of life movie about a loser who's never going to get out of Philadelphia, you know, and the movie shot documentary style, and it's very flat and it's very, like, lit very grainy. And this movie is about Broadway, it's about dancers, and it's about glitz and glamour to some degree. But Stallone, you know, presumably because he's watched Saturday Night Fever, which has also shot documentary style, very grainy, very gritty, decides to shoot this movie in that exact same style, but this is a movie about Broadway and dancers. So you get the worst of all worlds. You get the worst of shooting a slice of life in a documentary style because the slice of life shit is so poorly written and poorly executed. But then all the Broadway stuff is drab and awful. So you don't get the colors, you don't get the glitz, you don't get the glamour, and then the slice of life shit is terrible because it's bad.

The other thing is, and again, no disrespect to the fine gentlemen, Mr. Stallone and Mr. Travolta.

Sure.

None whatsoever.

They're not exactly rooted in the stage. These are not Broadway people.

And that's a humongous problem with this movie because nothing that is done in this film looks like Broadway.

It is like the bizarro world Broadway. It is like who is making these shows and thinks this is what a Broadway show is. Even in 1983, it's insane.

The shows don't even look good enough for Las Vegas.

They are like Vegas reviews.

They're like Vegas dance reviews. Yeah, exactly.

They're like sexopolis women.

They're not good ones, but that's, yeah.

No. And it's this weird, again, collision things that don't work of almost like trying to do weird contemporary dance meets Vegas meets music video.

Yeah.

But like none of it to me says that that is a plausible Broadway show.

No, nothing. Yeah, no, exactly.

Much less one that would be applauded.

But that's the thing is that this movie is very clearly a movie about Broadway made by a guy who directs boxing movies. Like it is like literally the way the dance sequences are shot look and not in a good way like the fight scenes in the in Rockies one through three, but not in a good way, you know, because they're not rousing and leading to a climax and pulling up. They're just bad. They're just shot in a greedy documentary style that doesn't fit the sport well.

And also they're they have and we'll see more of this. It escalates in the later sequences where there there's more and more affectation injected into it in terms of like we start with these freeze frames.

Yes.

But then as we proceed more, we're going to get more lens flares. We're going to get more slo-mo. Where do you get entire sequences that are entirely slo-mo? It's horrible. It's insane.

But this movie to me looks like literally like Stallone trying to like imagine a guy trying to direct a Scorsese movie that's about Broadway, but he's never seen a Scorsese movie. He's only had mean streets described to him in a language that is not his native language. That's what this movie looks like to me. It's like, what are you doing? Okay, Paul, Paul, I'm, okay, here's what happens at the first take.

Can we take a moment to do the plot of the movie? No, no, and remind everyone that you love the direction of Rocky III.

I did. I did. Yeah. This type of direction fits Rocky III perfectly. A movie about Broadway and dancers is so poorly served by this, you know? And again, because Rocky, you know, like in Rocky, there's already been two Rocky movies. You kind of know what the milieu is for Rocky. The dingy house Rocky lives in is a nice place, the gym is ugly, the boxing ring, the arena, all that stuff. Here, Stallone is trying to shoot New York City the way that Scorsese shoots New York City or the way that Frederick Wiseman shoots New York City. And none of it works. Also, none of it works because the slice of life stuff is so twee and poorly written and so affected that, you know, he's shooting, it's just documentary style, but it's, like, horrible. So, yes.

And it's just missing the heart of the Rocky at its best.

Yeah. Well, the thing is, though, Tony Manero is written like Rocky Balboa. But the thing is, John Travolta is a really attractive, good-looking guy. So, whenever he's being an idiot, it's not charming. It's just a really good-looking guy being an idiot. You know, whereas Rocky has this Irsine Lunkishness, you know, he's adorable.

He's this big, you know, my turtles named Cuff and Link, you know.

And that's funny because he's just a big lug. But, like, Travolta is, like, nine feet tall. He's sculpted like fucking Adonis. You know, he's got the huge eyes, the big lips. I mean, he's amazing looking.

Yeah, I will say, this film, especially in the third act, Extravaganza, seems to be a very elaborate construction to just showcase Travolta's peak physique.

Travolta's peak physique, which was advertised, this is actually, if you talk about what I know about this movie at the time, a lot of the press for this movie was about how Stallone, who transformed himself physically for Rocky III, because he was actually very different physique from Rocky's 1 and 2, where he was a little bit dourier and more of like a club fighter. And then in Rocky III, he looks like just about how Sylvester Stallone personally transformed John Travolta into this chiseled man. Also, by the way, Travolta's teeth, holy crap, what happened? I mean, damn, they're huge. I think they're bigger than he is in this movie. His teeth are gigantic. Am I the only one who knows?

I'm going to have to go look at other photos.

All right, I don't fucking know. Okay, look, so Tony Manero is a struggling dancer. He gets rejected by Clarence Botecher. And then we have a-

He's clearly been auditioning repeatedly and just keeps failing over and over again to try to break into Broadway. And it's just not happening for him.

And then we get an idea of how he's filling the time and how he's making a living. He teaches at an aerobic studio, which Jackie, his girlfriend, his not quite a girlfriend also teaches at, right? He also bartends, right? And he apparently has groupies as a bartender, which is weird because he's like, women show up and like, he's like, hey, look at those two tings over there. He refers to the women as things, right?

Yeah, he bartends like, or is a waiter at like a disco club.

Like a disco club. Not a good one though, you can tell.

No, but so it's not Studio 54, it's kind of...

There's a guitar band on the stage too.

Yes, yes, but it's not Frank. Frank's not playing, so we don't, we don't... But, but, and, and, and, as, and, and we get the sense that he is being looked at by a lot of the women here because he's so attractive, and that leads us to our, our, our second clip. Shall we, shall we hear it, producer Brad?

We on later?

No, I can't make it.

Why not?

Because lately I've been career-oriented.

And what's that supposed to mean?

It means that I don't have time for meaningful relationships right now.

That right.

Well, let me tell you something. Guys like you aren't relationships.

You're exercise. BURN! Oh my God, burn!

You know, you know what the thing is? Every line in this movie sounds like something Rocky would say, you know?

Like, I can just imagine going, you guys like you are relationships. You exercise, you know?

I mean, like all the zingers in this movie sound like they would be better coming out of Rocky's mouth, right?

I have to give credit where credit is due. This film is bad, OK? It's so bad. It's so bad. But there are little nuggets.

Oh, there's zingers in here and there?

Of some really great lines. There's another one in this scene where this this like duo, these two women, are hitting on Tony to come over and he says, last time I came over, I almost got brain damage. You partied too hard.

That's right.

The wonders that that evokes.

And allow me to show you how much better that line would be if Rocky were saying it.

You, last time I partied with you guys, you almost got brain damage. You partied too hard.

Well, I mean, then it's just sad because clearly that explains a lot. A lot, as far as Rocky.

Now, Paul, the reason why I selected to start this clip with the lyrics, look out for number one, you gotta push harder, is because that is the thematic of the first 15 minutes of this movie is.

Yes.

Travolta's hustling. He's hustling so much, in fact, that that leads us to clip number three, because then we have a montage after we see that Travolta works at a dance studio with Jackie.

A lot of montages in this movie.

This movie's all montage. It's like literally, but then we get another montage where he's going to talent agencies. And this is sort of like his monologue to the talent agents. As it's split between different talent agencies, none of them put down their phone or stop doing what they're doing to listen to him. They just sort of look up at him and go, no, and dismiss. But here's Travolta's sales pitch. Producer Brad, number three.

Well, I'm, you know, a dancer by nature.

I've been studying for four years and now I teach. But I'd like you to know I'm very available for TV work. Good day. And acting roles, I could do that. I do dramatic type parts. I could do comedy type of roles. I certainly consider doing a soap opera or even perhaps a road show, a musical of some sort. And I would definitely consider doing a print ad. And if you're looking for the strong, natural outdoor type, I'm very good at some sports like weight lifting and stickball and pushups. And if absolutely necessary, I don't mind doing any kind of extra work, except for nudity. I promised my mother I'd never do any nudity. I guess she's afraid that I might get a cold or something.

Wow. What a sales pitch, huh? I mean, that is Dale Carnegie right there, isn't it?

It's truly compelling stuff.

But again, think about what it would be like if Rocky Balboa were saying those lines.

He'd be saying, hey, consider doing a print ad or might do some sort of a road show or musical.

Again, you can tell Sly wrote this for himself and he's writing Tony Manero as Rocky Balboa.

And speaking of the meta dimensions and mixed realities of this film, what is the cameo we get in this montage on the streets of New York?

I do not know.

Of who shoulder bumps Tony Manero.

Tell me.

In full fur extravagant regalia.

Who?

Stallone.

Stallone?

How did you miss that?

How did I miss that?

It's incredible. It's one of the, like, it's an iconic cameo.

But you know, you know what's interesting though?

Worlds literally colliding.

This was, wow, just like the theme for Rocky IV, two worlds collide, rival nations. You know, but what's interesting is, now that you mention it, and I did miss the cameo.

And he's arguably in character as Rocky.

Because when you look at what Stallone was dressing like at this time in history, in 1983, he was wearing the fur coats. He was wearing the double-breasted jackets. He literally was dressing like Cheeseball Rocky from after he got famous, right? So it's interesting because this movie feels like Cheeseball Stallone trying to direct the movie that would have been made by Stallone in 1974, but he doesn't have, it's like he lost his contact with quote, the people unquote, that quickly.

He's flown too close to the sun.

Oh my God, yes. And his fur flew away.

Yeah.

Are they feathers? Wouldn't it be better if you were wearing feathers? It'd be so much better for the... Anyway, that's a better movie than this movie.

He needs his Mickey.

We go, oh, he needs his Mickey to ground him. You know, that's the problem with this movie is that Jackie is Tony Manero's Mickey, except they're fucking, so it's a thing. Anyway, and you did not want that in Rocky III.

We did not need that in our heads.

There is a running gag in this movie that every time that Tony goes to his apartment, he turns to the doorman, who's this almost sleepy old man, and Tony goes, do you get any messages? And the old man goes, no. So no one's calling Tony. That's a thing. And it happens like five times in the movie.

Yeah, and it's this fleabag, like, horrible, cheap hotel where he's living and he does, like, shower, laundry, and like, it's just a sad, pitiful existence.

But here's the thing, like, Tony's a dick, okay? Like, even in this clip that we played where he's, you know, where the girl says, guys that care in relationships, he's kind of a dick, you know? So he does all that stuff, and he doesn't go off with these women, but then he goes and sees Jackie. He wakes up with Jackie, right? And then ten minutes in the movie, the Bee Gees finally play for the first time.

Yeah, can we take a moment also to mention Jackie?

Let's talk about Jackie, shall we?

Cynthia Rhodes.

Oh, I loved her.

And do you know what maybe her first burst into the cultural firmament was?

It wasn't the Patrick Swayze hockey movie. That was later, right?

No, she was the titular Rosanna in Toto's music video of Rosanna, which, wait a minute.

No, the titular Rosanna is Rosanna Arquette for whom the song was written. But she plays the part of Rosanna Arquette in the song Rosanna in the video?

Whoa.

You both look confused.

I'm not sure who's talking to who here.

I'm questioning myself now.

Toto wrote the song Rosanna for Rosanna Arquette, but Cynthia Rhodes is the dancer in the video who is- Yes. Okay, got it. Yes. Yes.

In the music video.

Wow. Did you ever see that movie, Mind Walk? Because that's what we just did.

I mean, it's the only way to live.

It really is. So Tony and Jackie argue about him being competitive, and she says, no, I'm not being competitive, I'm being envious, which is really a distinction without a difference. My note here was this movie is trying real hard for grit. Travolta goes to see the show that Jackie is in as a chorus girl, and this is the first time we see Finola, and it is insane. As he's watching her, the camera just pans, just pushes in on him, and he's had this big dump. His girlfriend's in the show, but he's watching the main dancer in the show with a big smile on his face.

He's there ostensibly to support Jackie.

To support Jackie.

Who he regularly shares bad and affections with.

Yes, but then he's...

But clearly not a commitment. But then yes, in the same building, like they're at the show, the lead of the show. So immediately we are hating Tony.

We're hating Tony. He's a dick.

In the first act.

And it only gets worse because after he... I think the sax kicks in, Yowza, goes halfway through the Fenola Flanagan dance monologue where Travolta is watching her like she's breakfast, like she's a stack of pancakes. Then you think it's over and then it slows down and the saxophone kicks in and it gets even more quote, romantic unquote. It's insane, right? And then he goes backstage to her dressing room and hits on her.

He stalks her, essentially.

While his girlfriend is in the building in the same show. Yeah. It's insane. He's a dick. He's an asshole. And by the way, but to the movie's credit, the movie does know this and makes it kind of the point of the movie.

And she toys with him because she seems to be, let's just say, a higher degree of mental acuity.

I think that would lead us to clip number four, Producer Brad.

I'd like to get together with you and maybe talk sometime. That be possible?

About what?

About how incredible you are. Thank you.

But I do already know that.

Say what?

I already know.

Well, in case you don't know this, I used to be pretty incredible myself when I lived in Brooklyn.

Really? What happened?

I moved to Manhattan.

As bad as this dialogue is for romantic, meet cute, banter, I got to say that line about Brooklyn to Manhattan is kind of good.

It is pretty good.

I feel like it's actually the soul of the line that I moved to Manhattan. I feel like it's kind of the soul of the movie.

I think it almost feels like an underbaked theme of the film, which is this sort of guy who became a big fish in a small pond now trying to go to the ocean and is being eaten alive.

But he wasn't that big a fish in the Brooklyn pond. It's not like he was about losers.

Everything's relative.

Small pond, yeah, exactly.

Yeah, small pond. But, Fanoa Hughes, a couple of things worth mentioning.

Please.

Original cast member of Cats. Wow.

And how the mighty have fallen.

Did she have a bubble in that?

Like, there's a whole thing in the Cats movie about whether they had buttholes or not that she, never mind.

Release the, yes.

We're back to Satan's Alley.

Continues.

No, Satan's Alley. Do go on.

But continues to reign. Most people will recognize her as a soap opera queen for decades.

Yes, queen.

On General Hospital and All My Children, but also was the mother in Charmed.

She was?

Yes.

I wrote on that show. Yes.

Really?

Okay.

You know what?

Three episodes.

You know what? I think that when I worked on Charmed, we had a different actor play the mom. And I think they got, I think she got. Yeah.

Yeah, maybe.

Cause I think there was an episode in the first season where the, maybe the mom, I don't fuck. No, actually it might not have been the mom. It might have been an aunt or something. Like one, a distant relative. Nevermind.

Okay.

The mom didn't show up while I was working on Charmed.

I often will film again. Among my many deficiencies, I am not a charmed aficionado. So I.

Nor am I, Paul. So that's the next two of us. So anyway, now we have a little bit, we have a little bit more of Tony's flirty pitch to Laura. Let's hear clip number five, producer Brad, please.

But look, the thing is, is that I amazingly respect your dancing talent, all right? And I respect your womanhood. I didn't always respect womanhood, but since I moved into Manhattan, I get this new mature outlook on life. I don't smoke, I don't drink, I don't curse. Anyway, look, if you're still interested, I would like to take you out. Maybe we could go someplace, relax, have a drink, maybe have some dinner, and we got to go someplace informal because my suits are all being pressed.

Here's the thing, the reason why we have this clip and the previous clip, and there's another clip from the scene is because this scene goes on for fucking ever. Like literally there are Rainer Werner Fassbinder films that are shorter than this fucking Meet Cute. It is insane.

It is almost like a play within the film.

It really is.

Like this two-handed, one-eyed play about this sort of outmatched kind of duel of this guy who's trying to navigate these waters that are beyond his skills. And she's just sort of toying with him. And first just seems to have utter disdain for him.

Yes.

And he very, I think, does a bad job of trying to play like, oh, he just purely admires her skill and her dancing. But clearly, he's hitting on her.

Oh, he is. Yeah, absolutely.

And also that he's trying to work certain things out in real time.

Yeah.

As he's saying them. And she's just kind of a toying with him. It's very strange. But yet she does seem to become their little glimmers of her being inexplicably charmed by him.

Yes. Yes.

Like one might be charmed by a small, mentally deficient dog or perhaps a pony.

We're watching this and it's extra excruciating because in our mind we're like, you asshole. Jackie is literally like down the hall.

He's like there, down the hall.

What are you doing?

Yeah.

What are you doing?

He's a dick. He's a total dick. Anyway, so.

But yeah, but she turns him down.

Yes.

However. For a date, but invites him to audition for the next show.

Yes, exactly. But don't they wind up, but wait a minute, before the audition, I have them going on a date, so someplace in there they do wind up going out.

That's later.

No, that's, well, what's next? Paul Plot, if that is your name. No, because it's like, it's like they.

It's after the audition for her next show.

Is it?

Yes.

Oh, okay. Well, there you go. So I don't even know. No, no, no. Come on. Is it? All right. So, okay. Oh, so what happens where he auditions for the show? This movie has literally scrambled my brain. I barely know who I am anymore. Okay. So he auditions for the show. And while he's auditioning for the show, she watches him dance. And her appreciation for him goes from being like that, that one might have for a small, mentally deficient puppy, to being one that one might have for a beautiful show, a particularly clever fish. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Like in a fish tank, you're like, oh, look, the goldfish is going around. That's cute. You know, that kind of thing. Or a show horse. I like a show horse. Or a show horse. And they do wind up going on a date, which leads to an interminable romance. You see them walking through Central Park, holding hands, talking cutely to each other.

It's like a spoof.

It is. The one from Naked Gun is more believable than this one, isn't it?

And this is, so many things don't make sense. And again, not to go backwards, but we do get had this moment where after they've left and we see her go into a limo and he's like, that's like, how does she have a limo? And Jackie kind of sees this. And we get the seeds of jealousy. And I want to say there's like ostensibly at the outset, you're like, okay, this is going to be a classic love triangle. What it actually turns into is a love pentagon. But we are not there yet. But there is a moment where I'm starting-

Oh yes, no, no, there's a moment where I wrote like literally, this is a Sergio Leone film. Because it's literally everybody's eyes staring at the other person for like, oh, we'll get to that. It's insane.

It literally becomes a love pentagon later. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, reasonably so.

There's a term that a producer that I worked with called eye fucking, which is just when you have two people looking at each other very intensely in a movie.

There's so much of that in this film.

This movie, if eye fucking or fucking, this movie would be triple X, okay? It's insane. I mean, it's literally, okay, anyway.

But there is a great line she gives where about an accent, because he's been, he's taken by her accent, by Fenola Lora.

Charming as it is, by the way, my dad.

Yes, and that he's like, oh, she seems so, you know, intelligent, whatever, blah, blah. And Jackie has this great line, an accent doesn't make you intelligent. If it did, you'd be Einstein.

That's right.

And I like that. And at that point, like, Jackie, I'm really growing, is growing on me.

The dynamic here is this. Jackie is, Tony stands her up concept, like in this half hour that we described, he stands her up like twice. And then once he just, he literally makes a booty call and goes to her place, whatever, but she loves him. And she puts up with this shit and she's like, look, I don't want to know about your other women, whatever, but they clearly have a relationship where they're both free to pal around with other people, but she's clearly more invested in him than she is. The real fulcrum of this movie is when is Tony going to become an honest man and be nice to Jackie? And Finola Flanagan's character, whatever, Faustoria, whatever the hooker name is. So Laura is kind of not, she's not interested in him romantically, she likes him sexually, but she's also like dating five other people and she kind of treats him like a plaything and she sort of expects him to have the same attitude that, hey, we're just adults and we're in New York and we're just having sex with a bunch of people and who gives a damn, right?

So do you not find yourself wishing in this moment? Because here is, after this audition and she's like, oh, she sees what he can do, whatever, then they have this meet up, they meet up in the hall and there's more flirting, whatever. And then immediately she's like, oh, they're making out and they're going on a date. And it seems so sudden and implausible and unmotivated, but whatever. It feels like there's a little element of whammy going on there. And I'm thinking, I'm thinking, what if, Fionnuala Hughes, is in fact the mother from Charmed?

And she's got powers and she's putting the whammy on him?

Okay. I was thinking, I was, that works. I was thinking, what if this movie was in the shared universe with The Hunger and she was a vampire? Oh, yes. Would this movie be so much better if she were a vampire?

It would so explain her penthouse because they wind up having sex and she literally lives in the Fortress of Solitude, right?

It is this like insanely opulent bedroom of dreams.

She's like in the bed from Superman 2.

It's this extravagant, extravagant expanse of an erotic canvas of a satin laden bed of fantasy. It's insane. And then he's like, are you rich or something? Like he's such a moron.

He's such an idiot. He really is.

She politely kicks him out at 3 a.m. And he has never been kicked out of bed before.

He can't believe he's been... They literally have like a 22-minute dialogue scene about... Yeah. It literally breaks his brain that she's saying, okay, I've got dance class tomorrow. Why don't you leave so that I can sleep?

I've had enough. I've had my exercise.

What do you say? I was going to leave. It's 3 in the morning. It's raining outside.

And what's happening is he's out in the rain and he booty calls Jackie at 3. He's already had sex with Fenulia Fostoria since like the beginning of the day. They've been, you know, and then he calls Jackie at 3 a.m. because he's doing a booty call. This guy is he's awful.

It's so horrifying.

She has even showered.

He doesn't he doesn't go over, thankfully. She just goes back to bed. But yeah, he calls her and wakes her up. Now here, potential brief cultural tangent to go on. I know it's not fair to judge films on what we wish they were.

No, but because if it were the Phantom Menace would be a new hope. But do go on.

But sometimes doors open in a film connected to one's own cultural context that one brings.

Why do I feel like you're going to write a fanfic after this podcast is done?

Oh, no. I don't have that kind of free time. But here's the thing. Before we get to Love Pentagon, and we're still in this triangle, I am thinking, okay, I'm trying to give this film the benefit of that. Okay. I'm trying. I'm hoping that this movie isn't as bad as it clearly is.

It's really bad.

I'm also thinking back to, I harbored my own unfair genre prejudices against the rocky milieu that were not particularly my speed, but then grew to deeply love them, as Denis Villeneuve deeply loves things.

I am proud of you. I am proud of you, Paul.

I'm proud of myself, that there's still parts of my soul that can continue to blossom.

And grow in a spiritual manner.

Yeah, yeah, and yes. So I'm watching this and I'm like, okay, there's this devoted background dancer who pines for this kind of beautiful, but misguided, entitled prince. And he is enamored with this kind of on a pedestal exotic like queen. And I'm thinking, oh my God, this is going to be Turandot. This is going to be like, like, like one of the greatest opera of all time. Puccini's final masterpiece of this tragic love story of this prince who is like on a quest to secure the love of this unreachable kind of ice princess who literally challenges men to fight for her hand and then has them execute it, while the devoted Liu maintains this level of devotion even in the face of her own heartbreaking rejection.

Paul, do you know why what you're saying must never happen? What you're saying must never be allowed to happen, because if it were, that means we would be subjected to Frank Stallone singing Nessun Dorma. All right, so we must literally, like literally, I will build a Death Star to keep what you've just described from happening, okay? I will become Orson Krennic and fuck over my best friend for the Kyber crystals in order to stop this bullshit of Torendo from ever seeing the light of day. All right, so.

So I was just going to say, so speaking of doors that that opens, and again, apologies for indulging in it, but so we have had, we have had, I think we're fairly well aligned in our apprehension slash horror at the looming doom machine that is generative AI.

Yes, we are. I thought you meant Satan's Alley, but yeah.

Another apt word for it. So again, it is a monster of intellectual property, theft, it is an ecological nightmare, nightmare, all these horrible things.

Kind of like the film Staying Alive.

And yet for the first time, and I say this with all surprise and earnestness, for the first time, I have a glimmer of temptation to delve into Satan's Alley of generative AI and make an unholy alliance.

You actually want to bring, you actually want to do Nation Dorma as performed by Frank Stallone through AI?

Because we have the technology.

Oh, we have to live this dream.

What a horrible world that we live in that that is even possible.

And then I'm gonna blast your home with my Death Star, Paul. Like just-

I'm not gonna do it, I'm not gonna do it. No one should do it. Dear listeners, do not do this and send it to us.

Please don't.

Because we will not listen to them.

No, no.

And play them on the podcast.

Oh, no, there's no way that could possibly ever happen. Do not do that. No, it'll be terrible.

Don't do that.

Don't do that.

What if they did the Kurt Wood Smith tyrannical director movie that you didn't get?

Oh, through AI. Oh, you know, see, this is the problem. This is the seduction of AI.

Yes.

Anyway, is this an evil temptress, much like Laura in this film?

Yes.

Now Tony is in the lobby of his shithole rat box Fleabag Hotel, waiting by that most quaint of objects, a payphone. Does anybody remember what payphones are? Of course you do. You're listening to this podcast. You're probably our age. If you're younger, what are you doing here? The point being, Paul is waiting, Tony's waiting for a call. The call comes in and he got cast in a Fostorious show. So now he's a chorus guy on that show and he's really excited. He, it's, you know, this is actually a trailer line in the movie where he just slams the phone into the cradle and he shouts, way to go, Manero. But the best thing in the scene is that then he looks around at the people in the lobby and he goes, yeah, I gotta change my residence. Yeah. I know there's another Rocky line. They're all Rocky. They're all better if Rocky says them. Okay, anyway.

But then what does he do immediately?

Well, he goes to Jackie's club to tell her what.

He calls his mom.

Oh, he calls his mom. Yes, he calls mama, mama Manero. Yeah, yeah. Who then he has a great scene with later. And the mom's like, and the mom's like, hey, you got to what, you know, she's like, no nudity, I hope.

Yeah.

Keep your clothes on.

That's right. Keep your clothes on.

Primary concern.

Yeah. But you know, I actually know there's an actress that I know, somebody whose work you know and respect, who told me once that her mother said to her that this is a very Latinx thing, that she could, that her cleavage could be as big and ample as she possibly wanted it to be as long as she wore a crucifix on a chain. So yeah, so apparently that's a thing. Anyway, so Tony goes, we have the first date, we have the first date, no, no, no. Tony then goes to see Jackie to give her the news. And this, this is the triumphant entrance of not just a singer, but the actor, the screen presence, that is Frank Stallone.

The Frank Factor.

So anyway, Frank Stallone, it turns out...

We should get a medal. We should get a medal for restraining ourselves that long.

This long. We're almost an hour to this podcast, and we did not deploy The Frank Factor.

So, but immediately, so he's there, and she has the news, so like, congrats on yourself, but what is Tony immediately fixated on?

Well, Frank and, well, Frank and Jackie are-

How can he be staring at you like that? Like, he's immediately, so we're getting, we're moving toward the love pentagon. We're now in a love square.

Here's another, we get yet another factor of Tony Manero's dickishness, which is that he is almost irrationally jealous man.

Yes.

So, Jackie is on stage with Frank singing the song, and they're dancing together, and you know, whatever. She leaves the stage in the middle of the musical number, with great disrespect to the band, to talk to Tony, and yet Tony is still pissed off that Frank is looking at her. Frank, Frank who plays it.

It was a creepy stare though.

Well, I mean, yeah, but that's just, Brad, Brad, a thin line divides a creepy stare from the smoldering intensity of Frank.

Yes. I was alternately going to...

Thank you for explaining.

I was going to alternately explain that Frank just suffers from resting creepy stare face.

So, but so he's upset with her, and he's saying hey, why is he looking at you that way, what... Is this the thing where he goes through the whole thing about rhythm guitars, and how you should never trust rhythm guitars? No, no, no, that's later. So, but...

But, speaking of instruments...

Yes.

Speaking of instruments, do go on. Satan's Alley?

Do you know who is on guitar?

Oh, this is the thing that you wouldn't tell me before that.

In Frank Stallone's band.

Niels Lofgren from the E Street Band.

No.

Okay. Jimmy Hendrix. I don't know. Goal, do you tell me? Jeff Goldblum of the Hong Kong Cavaliers.

Who?

WG. Snuffy Walden.

No shit.

Really? Yes, shit.

The famous composer who, among other things, wrote the theme song for all of Zwick Herskovitz's shows, including 30-something, yes.

Yes. And Dear to My Heart scored the West Wing.

There you go. Snuffy.

Yeah. Oh, wow.

And he's on guitar. Okay. There you go.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Jammin with Frank. Yeah.

Jammin with Frank. Amazing that he was able to escape the Frank vortex and do such great work later in his career. Now, here's the thing. Tony has this conversation with Jackie. Then he agrees to meet with her after the club closes later that night. But the creepy stalker that he is, he goes to ambush Finola, who it turns out is in a date with Count Dracula.

I'm telling you, is vampires.

That guy looks like a vampire.

He totally looks like a vampire.

No, he's a tuxedo with the red bow tie. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

By the way, I think they rented that tuxedo and gave it to the director of Satan's Alley for the opening night sequence as a budget cutting measure, but we'll get into that. It's the exact same suit. Yes.

Can we go back one moment? Please. Snuffy Walden.

Please do.

Are you sure that's not Richie Sambora in the band on stage with him at that point?

Because he does have a credit. Richie Sambora does have a credit in this movie.

I saw Richie Sambora, I think, in that scene, but I don't recognize Walden to know what he looks like.

So to be fair...

The plot thins.

I did not make this identification in the scene. I made it in the end credits.

So they are both in the film.

Yes. So he may or may not be in this particular scene, but he does perform and play guitar in the band.

This is amazing.

This is amazing. This is just beyond belief. So anyway, so Finola is on a date with Count Dracula, and she suggests that he come up with her and Count Dracula and have a drink, but he is disgusted by that.

He's not kinky enough for that.

He's not kinky, which is, by the way, like, honestly... Tony Manero might be...

He's not just stupid.

He might be the world's most fucking boring himbo. Like, seriously, this guy can't sign up for a threesome? What a... I mean, why was he blessed with those looks if he's not gonna have a threesome with Finola, what's her name, and Count Dracula? You know? I mean, come on. Maybe he saw the hunger.

Maybe. Maybe. I don't know. I don't know.

So he stands up Jackie, so what a dick, right? And here's the thing. There's a couple things I wanna say here, which is that this movie was written by the guy who wrote Serpico, okay? But he also wrote a movie called Raw Deal, which is one of me and producer Brad's favorite films from childhood, because this is a man who gave Arnold Schwarzenegger an alliteration in dialogue. Literally, this film has perhaps my favorite line of all cinema, which was, she was molested, murdered and mutilated.

How does he find that as funny as we do? Look at his face. He's like, move on.

I'm sorry.

Sometimes we add Murphy to that just because, Murphy, she was molested, murdered and mutilated. But anyway, so he has stood up Jackie, but then the next day at the rehearsal for the show, they all see each other. Yes. Jackie's actually pretty cool about it because, hey, Jackie, Jackie is a cool girl.

Yes, but she, but the glances, the eye fucking between Tony and Laura does not go unnoticed by Jackie. And so we know she's being cool, arguably cooler than she should be, but we do know there's some jealousy that she is harboring.

But then, Finola is there, Tony goes to her and he's acting like he's her boyfriend just because they had sex once, right?

And he's all like, hey, you're the guy, whatever, you know?

And she's like, dude, what's the hell's the matter with you?

We had like one date.

And that leads to the following exchange. Producer Brad, may we hear clip number six, please.

I don't like being let on.

Who's leading you on?

I call you up, you're not home. I go to your apartment, you're not there, and then I wait all night for you and you bring some guy home with you.

Are you talking to me?

We did it.

Don't mean nothing to you.

It was nice.

Oh, nice, like something like you do every day, like having breakfast.

I usually skip breakfast.

Look, I'll see you later, okay?

Where are you going? I'm talking to you.

I said later.

Come here, I want to-

Take your bloody hands off me.

Don't you ever touch me again.

Who do you think you're dealing with? Some little groupie that jumps when you call?

Is that who you think I am?

We met, I liked you, we made it. What do you think it was? True love. And you think I used you.

What about you using me?

Everybody uses everybody.

Wow, the grit, the drama.

I mean, you imagine, you imagine, can you imagine De Niro saying that to Joe Pesci in Mean Streets? Because I can't. Anyway, actually I can and it's much better.

I don't know if I should say this.

Say whatever, dude, say it, say it.

So they're both nominated for the Razzies for this film. But impressively, Finola, and I think undeservedly, gets nominated for two Razzies.

For this movie?

Yes, for the same movie.

For two acting Razzies?

For actor or supporting actor or whatever, and then like new actor or new performance or break through whatever. Yeah, yeah. And I'm just like-

Newcomer.

Yes, and that just seems like unnecessarily piling on. But-

Now, the thing that we need to understand about what's happening in the movie now, though, is that, and Paul, I'm shocked, and now Paul, I need to go back.

Oh.

Yeah. Yeah, I do.

This is so disorienting.

There's something we never mentioned.

I mean, that we are now fully in the love pentagon.

Satan's Alley, the show that was described so pithily at the beginning of the show.

Yes, this is what they're rehearsing.

Yes, they're rehearsing Satan's Alley. The man who gives that speech with which you open is the director of Satan's Alley, who is none other than Ace Hunter, leader of Megaforce. Am I right? This guy is a dead ringer for Ace Hunter. He's got the feathered hair, he's got the beard, he's got the scarf. I mean, the guy directing it, come on, Paul.

He's sort of a joyless Ace Hunter.

Well, he's a theater director, he's very intense.

Yes, he's very intense. I think the actor's name is Steve Inwood. And in my head, I was thinking Steve Winwood.

The musician, think about it, there must be a higher love. Yeah, of course.

Yeah, but no, it is the sort of Inwood. And he doesn't have a lot to do until one big showdown scene.

Two big showdowns later on.

Or two later. That he actually is, I think, is quite good. But yeah, he has a vision.

He has a vision for Satan's Alley, but he also has a vision for his wardrobe, because he kind of dresses like he's in a Star War. I mean, he's got like this leather jacket with like bright yellow accents, and he's got the feathered hair. And I mean, he looks like Ace Hunter to me, but he also looks like one of Ralph McQuarrie's early designs for Han Solo, you know? When Han Solo had a beard.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's ready for some kind of field mission.

Oh, yeah. No, no. And not on this planet, Paul, not on this world. Yeah. So anyway, so now, so Finola does, you know, after some backstage shit and she sees him dance again or some shit like that, she does invite him to this cocktail party at her house, right? And...

Yeah, the double invitations.

Yes.

And then Jackie...

The dueling obligations.

Yeah.

So he tells Jackie, I'm going to meet you when the club closes again.

Yeah.

And then he tells... But then, Finola, at the end of the scene, where everybody uses everybody, and it's terrible, she says, there's a cocktail party at my house, you know, da-da-da, so you can come to that. So he chooses to go to the... Not only does he go to the cocktail party, he takes out the suit.

Okay.

So there are a couple of things in here that are...

Let's go for it.

Mind bogglingly bothersome.

Go for it.

First, there is one really good line, because as he's saying goodbye to Jackie, they're parting ways to then... And again, at this point, it is... It is kind of becoming apparent in a way that should have been made way more apparent sooner, that it's Christmas. It's Christmas Eve. Is it? This is... Yeah, it's a Christmas party that Laura invites Tony to. How did I miss that? It's like... I don't... Because they hardly do anything about it.

Because there's nothing Christmassy in the productions. There's nothing Christmassy in the productions.

There's only little hints of a Christmas tree in the corner here and somewhere else there. It's... Wow. It feels like a missed opportunity. But as Jackie departs, Tony says, Don't go talking to strangers. And Jackie says, Tony, no one's stranger than you are. Which I don't think is really earned, but it's kind of funny in terms of how, like, out of the blue it is. It's very, very strange.

The movie... Well, but that in the Einstein line, for example. The movie... First of all, it shows that she's weighty and funny and nice.

Yeah.

That works. But the movie... A big problem with this movie is that Tony's a dick. And Tony's a guy from a 1970s movie where he played a bad dude, you know, with some redeeming value, but he was mostly kind of a selfish prick. Now, there's an 80s movie where he's a selfish prick, but we're supposed to love him for his, you know, Gordon Gekko-like or Bud Fox-like rise to prominence, but he's an asshole.

This reminds me of something you said earlier that I think is very important, which is the contrast between Rocky dumbness and Tony dumbness.

Tony dumbness, yeah.

Okay? Yeah. Rocky dumbness is kind of… Endearing. endearing, but it's also unintentional. It's sort of… and it's also rooted in his heart.

Yes.

Whereas Tony's dumbness is willful…

Yeah.

and is coming from his asshole.

It is coming from Satan's Alley.

Yes. It is. Thank you. It is selfish. It is… and this is, I guess, his arc. I guess this is his lesson he needs to learn, but he doesn't really learn it.

Not really, no.

He does to some degree. We'll get to whatever. But again, hate the note of, oh, lead characters need to be likable. No, they need to be interesting, but they also need to be relatable. You have to understand them. And here we're given so little to kind of connect with, like, what is wrong with this guy?

Well, I mean, clearly he has a head injury. He's got a traumatic...

From that threesome. Hence he's sworn off any future threesomes.

He's got a traumatic head injury from it. That's right, the women who party too hard.

Yes, it all connects.

Oh, my God. Oh, wow, Paul.

And thanks to that previous threesome that resulted in head injury, he has been spared the fate of eternal life in a wooden box.

Yeah, the...

In Fanola Hughes' attic.

Attic, yes. The Thomas Mann-like depth of this film is only now being revealed to me, Paul.

I'm trying to find anything in this film to cling to and keep my attention, because something I forgot to mention, as a public service announcement, I mean, there was no way... Producer Brad, bless you, sir. You actually paid good money to rent this movie. There was no way I was going to do that. Not on principle, but also I just thought, eh.

What did you watch it on?

So here's the thing. I had to watch it on the Satan's Alley of streaming services. Oh, God. It is not on any of the name marquee premium platforms. Of course not. Why would it be? It is not on Tubi or Roku or...

I'll tell you, it better not be the one I watched it on, because we'll have words, but tell me, what did you watch it on?

The only place you can find Staying Alive currently on any streaming is Pluto TV.

Not true. Not true.

What?

Not true.

Where did you find it?

If you have a library card, because you're a good citizen.

Oh, of course. Yes.

It's on Canopy.

Why didn't I do that?

And Hoopla. By the way, by the way.

Why didn't I do that?

By the way, World. And I do believe this is a World podcast.

This is worth a digression.

Get a library card and get on Canopy. It is the best streaming service out there. It's got, yes, it's got Staying Alive in it, whatever. It's awesome. So yes. And you'll be supporting your library at a time when you really need to, you know.

Do you want to know how many ad breaks I suffered through? Because I forgot that Canopy is a thing that exists.

How many ad breaks?

10.

Were they each a glorious respite from the depredations of Staying Alive?

No, no, no. They were like for off-brand ozempic. And like rabbit holes I did not need or want to go down to. Every ad break, six ads. I found plenty of other things to do in these breaks.

How long did it take you to watch the movie?

It took me two days.

It's like taking this hour and a half movie and turned it into like a Bella Tar movie. Holy shit.

Yeah, anyway, yes, canopy is a gift to civilization.

So just to streak a little bit forward, Fedola Flanagan Hughes-Fastoria is having a party. And she shows Travolta. Travolta takes out the suit, the white suit from Saturday Night Fever, which is iconic. Now, he doesn't wear it with the vest and the black tie and the white. Instead, he wears it with a blue kind of cardigan.

A light blue V-neck and sweater.

He looks kind of like Sonny Crockett.

Yes, he is Proto Sonny Crockett, even with a pop collar. It's kind of like when we inadvertently discovered the secret origin of the Red Wedding in Game of Thrones. I feel like this is...

You feel like Michael Mann or Tony Yurkovich were seeing this movie and they went, that's what Sonny Crockett should wear?

Yes, yes. Let me choose to believe this.

Paul, I want to believe. I'm going to have a poster of Michael Mann and John Travolta in the same poster and I'm going to say, I want to believe.

Don't remind me how tempted I am by the new X-Files Lego set.

Okay. Hey, Paul, how about that? Oh, sorry.

Oh, God damn.

Now look, but here's what happens, okay? Fidel Thuningen shows up at the party with Ace Hunter, right? Yes, yes.

This extravagant balcony full of well-to-do people.

And Tony feels out of place in his white suit, which, by the way, do you know who wound up buying the original white suit in auction? I think you do.

No.

The owner of the white suit who bought it in auction was Gene Siskel until his death. Until his death, it was Gene Siskel owned that white suit from Saturday Night Fever, believe it or not.

Good for you.

So, okay. So because he goes to the party, he actually stands up Jackie. And for the last time-

But he doesn't. Here's the other thing. He, we are given specific times when they make plans, when he makes plans with both of these women.

Right.

He tells Jackie, Oh, I'll meet you at nine. And then the party starts at ten. Laura invites him to this party, like around ten.

So he could just show up and be with Jackie, and then go to the party at 11.30. It's a New York party. It's not going to start till midnight anyway.

He could also, if his intentions were pure, which they are not, he could go to the party with Jackie, and just go to it as a party.

That's true.

But no.

Because there are going to be Broadway people.

But he's hiding this from Jackie. And instead of like prioritizing Jackie, he goes to the party first, which makes no sense even for willfully stupid Tony Manero. No.

So we then have a scene where Tony goes to Jackie's club to confront her or to apologize or whatever. And here's the thing I want to say, it's like she's singing, and it's a very sad song about breaking up or some such thing. And I actually wrote down the lyrics because she's singing sadly to Tony about her shattered dreams of romance with him. She's on stage with Frank, but she's really singing to Tony.

Very unsubtle that she's singing to him.

And she sings, and you spin the wheel of his fortune, watching it turn, live and learn, I keep reaching out and coming up empty-handed. Oh my God, pure Shakespeare. And then we have-

It's not exactly turandot, but-

Okay. So then we have their breakup.

The breakup scene. And she's really good.

She is. Quote number seven, producer Brad.

Do you know how many times you've done this to me?

I love you so much, Tony.

Don't you know that?

You keep treating me like this.

What can I say to you, I'd-

Nothing.

You don't have to say anything. I'll be your friend, but no more than that.

You know, she's actually really good at this movie. And I feel like she never got a chance to actually be a good actor in a good movie.

She's also in Flashdance.

Is she? Is she good in it?

Apparently so. I have never seen it, so I don't know.

Well, it's funny because it came out in the summer of 83, so this might change.

It might be in-

Spring.

It's still in theaters.

No, it's in theaters. It's still in theaters.

It's still in theaters.

Tony walks around New York for a lonely, and there's a callback to the first movie, which is that he walks by the now decrepit disco where he was king in Brooklyn, the 2001 Odyssey Disco.

And he crosses the Brooklyn Bridge.

Exactly.

He leaves Manhattan because he's now for Lauren. He likes both women because in the Christmas party that we're not explicitly told is a Christmas party, but is, she's been touchy feely with the director guy, and they have their like balcony talk where she kind of tells him off, sets him straight. And so yeah, he's screwed up and now he's got neither of them.

And who's the first person he goes to talk to about this change of personality that's going to provoke in him?

His ma.

He goes to Brooklyn to talk to ma, and we get, and he apologizes to her. He says, you know, I'm not a good person and I'm sorry for being so awful to you in the prequel to this film. In fact, let's go ahead and hear the clip number, hurry, producer Brad.

I don't believe this.

Believe it?

Oh, well, I don't believe it. Don't get fresh with me.

This is the attitude you're talking about.

That's what got you out of this damn neighborhood.

So don't go apologize.

You don't need to apologize because you must have been doing something right.

So what you're saying is I've always been this bastard, but it's all right because like it comes natural to me.

It's not a right.

There's one thing in the scene, though, do go on, that is so beautifully right, which is, and it speaks to me deeply. And again, I am I'm reaching for anything, any any life preserver, as I'm drowning out in this movie.

Out with it, man.

What is he? What is he having for breakfast?

What?

He's having pie pie. And he gets another slice. He has another slice.

And he mentions and he mentions that it's a better pie than he gets in Manhattan. So there is. Yeah.

Yeah. And I'm just like, I hate you, Tony. And yet I appreciate your breakfast lifestyle choices because you love his mother. Well, yes, I'd love his mother more, although her advice to him is not the best. But it's in stark contrast to, again, the evil vampire temptress that is Laura who has has told us and told him that she always skips breakfast. Yes. And we know why it's because she feeds on the blood of the other club goers. Yes.

Yes. Look, a couple of things happened, but basically Tony winds up summoning Jackie for because he, two reasons. One of them is he needs a favor from her, right?

And we're not there yet.

Well, then you take me through. I don't know if I can get it. So basically, like what I have here is Tony and Jackie, they're dancing in the show. They go back to rehearsing the show. It's very tense in the show. And they're all watching each other's dance moves jealously, right?

Well, so here is where things ratchet up and we have a clear sense of what this show is.

Oh, Satan's Alley.

And it's kind of insane. And so there's this music track playing this song, the lyrics of which repeatedly are, dance, fire, dance. And I thought I was losing my mind. What is happening? This is insane. This is what? And they're all like so committed. And this director is so like, oh, he wants to, he's working everybody's ass off as he says is necessary.

Yes.

But yeah, it is.

And in the scene, but in the sequence, you get the sense that Ace Hunter, the director, is making eyes at Finola. Tony is watching Finola and the dancer with him, with her whose name is Jesse.

The lead, yes.

Jackie is watching Tony.

Yes.

But Tony is also watching Jackie get hit by other dancers.

Yes.

But Jackie is not letting anybody do anything with her because her heart is for Tony, right?

I know. Yes. But then, and then they have a talk outside, like by the water.

Well, this is the-

Tony, he asks, the favor.

The favor. Okay. So let's go for, for, for, uh, clip number nine.

Uh, I want to ask you a little favor, if you wouldn't mind.

What favor?

I was wondering if you could meet me here tonight.

No, I don't think I can.

Listen, I will owe you for life if you do this for me. Look, I know, I know I treat you bad and I know I got terrible manners, but the people I grew up with had terrible manners. After all, I gotta know that some of this rubs off on me. Look, I'm telling you, there's a gentleman inside here that is dying to get out, really.

And that's kind of, that's vaguely charming. It's the beginning of a kind of arc for this guy, right?

There's only one thing I can ascribe this change of heart that he has had. Pie, of course. Pie. It is like he has been refueled, his soul has been starving. And by refueling with the nourishment of mom's pie, two slices no less, that we know of.

Right.

Finally, he is reorienting his conscience.

He's gotten back in touch with this humanity, his lost humanity.

Yes, and also he kind of figures that Laura is gone.

Yes.

And so, well, now he's recognizing that he's been taking Jackie for granted.

What's interesting is she shows up, so basically he wants her to help him figure out Jesse's part so he can basically steal it from the lead guy in the show.

And who does she show up with?

Oh, so she comes back to the rehearsal space, but she's brought, she's been walked here by somebody. And who is that?

Carl, played by The Frank Factor.

And Tony is so filled with jealousy.

And it's insane, and it's insane jealousy.

It's wildly irrational.

Frank, that's the thing. Tony is like a psychopath in terms of his relationships with women. He immediately assumes that he's like Finola's boyfriend, and you show up with a guy. And he has this monologue, because Frank is wearing sort of like a green jacket where he goes, first of all, he says, isn't he a rhythm guitarist? Everybody knows you can't trust a rhythm guitarist, right?

Yeah, yeah, he's like, oh, what are you doing dating a musician? As if like dating a dancer is a better choice.

Yeah, but rhythm, have you ever heard, I mean, I've heard drummers are supposed to be, but rhythm guitarists?

It's very specific, but it seems-

I would imagine rhythm guitarists would be the beating heart of a band in the most steadfast and solid-

I mean, clearly he is just pulling this out of Satan's Alley.

John Lennon. Exactly, thank you, John Lennon. Yeah, but he also says everyone in the world knows you can't trust rhythm guitar. And then he says he looks like some demented paratrooper.

I wrote that down, too.

Like he's just-

he's like a 13-year-old boy. He's such a fucking moron. Okay, anyway.

But I- let's just say, again, that is- again, this is not a great movie.

No.

In any way, shape or form.

Not in the least.

But, no, I'm telling you, no generative AI monstrosity could ever come up with a line, he looks like some demented paratrooper. Like, I'm sorry. That is just- There's something magical about that insane specificity.

Another Rocky Balboa line, by the way.

She'd be like, hey, he looks like some kind of demented paratrooper, you know.

Yeah. So, unhinged and random.

Jackie and Tony, she helps him with his routine, they dance. And it goes on for fucking ever.

But first, she politely sends away Frank. Carl. And possibly my favorite exchange in the film.

Oh, yeah. This is one of the few moments of wonderfulness in this movie where Frank and Tony Manero are basically sparring over who's the biggest.

It is the showdown of Machismo.

Clash of the Swingin Dicks right here. Let's hear it. Yes.

Is everything all right? Everything is fine.

She's in good hands. And what do you all state, pal?

Yeah. You want this ability?

Look, I'll see you Wednesday.

Oh, burn. Somebody call the burn unit.

I mean, now that, to be fair, that's sounds more like a welcome back. Cotter line.

That's a line from Greece. You know, that's also like that's not something you say. Like that's not something Danny Zuko would say, doesn't it?

Yeah, it's so aggressive. It's so, but it's so great. I just, it's so dumb, but it's.

But it is such a, it is such a Vinny Barberino line.

It made me really, it made me really happy.

In a related, in a related note, my psychotherapist was once a TV writer and one of the shows he worked for on was Welcome Back, Cotter. So there you go.

Please.

I'll ask him.

Thank him, thank him for his contributions to civilization.

So, so, so Tony walks, walks, Jackie Hulme.

Yeah. Well, we have this slow, a beautiful, like almost crazy slow-mo montage that goes on and on For fucking ever.

Oh my God. I had a birthday waiting for-

In slow-mo of the two of them rehearsing the lead roles, the big sequence in Satan's Alley, in the Broadway musical they're in as background. And yeah, it is, oh, it's a lot. It's a lot.

So here's what happens, okay? Here's what happens. We're in, we're in, we're in, we're in an hour 30 and we're going to, we're going to move through this. Tony goes, so they have this-

Walks her home.

Walks her home, finally tells her he loves her, because he's, because he's in his redemption arc. And then we go back to-

There's this glimmer of poetry. Where he says, I'm not used to saying nice things to you. Just like, yeah, yeah, cause you're an asshole.

Cause you're an asshole.

But then he does finally tell her that he loves her, which is a big moment. I did not expect this moment. And I'm pleasantly surprised. And then they kiss and I'm just like, oh, this is only happening so that he can fuck it up.

But he doesn't.

We don't know that yet. It's actually, he almost does. He kind of, almost, he gets fucked.

It's kind of the nice thing in this movie. But anyway, so he goes, so we look, we're going to, we're getting more rehearsal.

We got to get through this.

They go back, they go back to the rehearsal. Tony sees Jesse having an argument with Ace Hunter, the director, and he steps in.

Yeah.

To do the dance with, with Finola.

The lead is, yeah, is not cutting it.

No. So Tony gets it.

Tony seizes the moment.

Yes.

And one of my favorite things that we cannot clip in this film, because it is maybe the purest moment of cinema in the film.

Oh my God. The Sergio Leone five-way eye fuck. That happens, that happens during this sequence.

No, no, that wasn't what I was thinking.

Okay.

It's when Tony is called forth to step in, to take a shot and rehearsal for the lead role, and then passes the guy, the lead, he's replacing him.

Butler. Jesse's the director.

Yeah, sorry. The sneer on his face to Tony is just, it burns with like a thousand suns.

I'm going to have to rewatch this film.

Oh, it's, it's.

You bastard.

It's an, and then, and he of course is clad in this, like, gaping open top.

Oh, he's in like a, like a Doug Henning, like purple.

One-Z purple.

Purple unitard, yeah, yeah.

It's so ridiculous with, anyway.

Tony, Tony, Tony gets the part, but while he's doing the dance where he's getting the part, there is this incredible Sergio Leone five-way ifoc, where him and Laura and Jackie and Ace Hunter are just looking at each other in gel, in a combination of jealousy, ambition, hatred, envy. And actually, this is, this is my note. It says, this is like Goombas cosplaying a chorus line. That's my note on that. Tony gets the lead. And of course, because Tony just got the lead, we go to, yeah.

Well, it's not that simple though. And this is important.

I'm sorry. You're killing me.

You've killed me.

No, it's the movie.

The movie's killed me.

So the first shot he gets.

You've used the movie as a cudgel with which to kill me.

Go on, go on.

Go home. There is a climactic lift in this dance sequence that at first attempt, despite the late night wee hours practicing with a hopelessly devoted Jackie, Tony fails and stumbles and does not, he fails at the lift and he gives up. He walks off.

Yeah, and he has a shouting match with the director.

Yeah, he assumes that that's it, that it's hopeless. He gives up and the director, and this is, I find, I love when a movie can surprise me in a good way. It kind of says, this movie is a better movie than it has been.

Right.

And it has a potential to be a better movie, which almost is annoying because it's like, well, why isn't the whole movie better? But the director follows him down the hall. And again, we know that they are also rivals in this love Pentagon.

Yes, yes.

And the director, Steve Inwood, not Windwood, gives him this tremendous dressing down. It's like a Friday Nights Football Coach moment where he's just chewing him out for bailing. But then you think, oh, that's going to turn him around and build him up. It doesn't. Tony then still leaves, or at least we think he does. And then the director goes back, starts the rehearsal up again with the lead who's like not cutting it. But then Tony returns.

Yes.

And that's, I mean, that's actually kind of good. At this point, I'm like, hey, this is like feeling like a sports movie.

Well, here's, this is, this is, Paul, this, you just, you just hit it because this is the moment when you realize Stallone has been directing a Rocky movie all along. Yes.

He's been wanting to. Yes.

He's been trying to direct.

He's been stuck with this.

He's literally, he's literally doing a Broadway movie, but he wants it to be those first two scenes in Rocky 3, where Paulie throws the bottle of booze at the machine, and they argue in the parking lot, you know. That's what he thinks he's directing, but he's in fact directing a Broadway, he wants to direct that he's directing a Broadway movie. But now, we get a training montage, of course.

Yes. And the rehearsal, and a full-blown rehearsal montage.

Exactly, yeah.

And Tony and Laura basically now face off, because she doesn't trust him or have the confidence. And also, they've got their own drama.

Yes.

But now, he pulls off the lift. And now, it's like, oh, now we're cooking.

Yeah.

Meanwhile, we get the full force of the music for the scene.

Yes.

And now, it's escalated to dance. Dancing so close to fire. Oh, my God. So at this point, Javi, the only way I was only going to be able to make it, because I was like, I know we're heading into the third act. I know there's that looming threat of Bob Mackie costumes. Who knows what madness is going to be unleashed? If this is the music and this is like what's happening? I was like, I need something. I need to armor myself.

And how did you do it?

I put this on, which is, dear listeners, only someday on YouTube will this be visible. But my current favorite shirt.

Your Capybara shirt.

It's my Capybara shirt. Oh, I see. That's okay. Good. Good. Yeah.

Which, uh, only the snuggling warmth of a Capybara could get you from Satan's Alley.

A gift from my beloved son. And it looks like a band, for those of you listening. Looks like a band t-shirt, a retro 80s, kind of 90s band shirt with a congregation of Capybaras.

Paul, here's the thing. And it is during the last act of this film, which is basically set on the premiere night of Satan's Alley. And it's really mostly the show, Satan's Alley.

The whole third act is like opening night of the show and backstage and on stage.

But really mostly, honestly, just watching the show. This is where you find the biggest problem with this movie. And we're talking about it earlier, Stallone thinks he's directing one of these really another. He directs this entire sequence like it's the final fight in a Rocky movie. The problem is that theater is not a competition. Theater is not a sport. There are no winners in theater. So you don't have the same kind of tension, you know? So they keep struggling to create tension, but it's not there because good theater relies on collaboration and not on antagonism. So there's no tension in this scene because it's just about, will they, oh my God, will these finally collaborate? Well, yeah, they're dancing together. I mean, it's, and he shoots it in a way that is so drab. It's really a fundamental misunderstanding of how to shoot dance at all. And I mean, literally, this show is drab and awful and shot with in frames that don't show you the totality of the movement of what's going on on the stage. It's horrible, Paul.

Also, one of the things that Ebert in his review pointed out very astutely is that it fixates and focuses on angles and shots of things that are happening on the stage that are not visible to the audience. It's like that are clearly like important parts of the show, but are for the camera and not for the like it's just it's they're not even really trying. The other thing is what the hell is this show?

It has no singing, it has no dialogue.

No, no.

Music goes have singing and dialogue, right?

It is like this pseudo avant-garde contemporary music, live music, video dance review, a contemporary dance showcase of basically three musical numbers with a break in between that there is this hoity toity like big opening night Broadway crowd with tuxedos, whatever, and Tony's mom is there in the theater. She's not proud till the end.

She's pretty dubious until the end.

She's very apprehensive.

She's very dubious and right that she should be.

But it is like the freakiest thing. It is so insane. It starts with this metal rig, like Tony descends.

He's like crucified to the metal rig.

He's in this weird metal cage rig thing that descends.

And when that's going on, you cut to the director very, very tensely looking at the mixing board and the soundboard going, hang on, Manero, hang on. Like, like, no, they probably built this so that he would be able to stand on it. That's the whole point of it anyway.

Yeah. But as it begins and as I described it in the beginning of the episode, this phantasmagoria of flesh, Tony's mom crosses herself, which I find very amusing and charming.

Now, guys, imagine, imagine, this, well, first of all, imagine Joel Schumacher at his Batman and Robin peak of homoeroticism and BDSM imagery. And it's kind of like, but if you, if, if Bob Fosse, if Bob Fosse's cousin, Todd Fosse had directed it, you know, they couldn't get Bob, they got Todd and he's fine. It's so bad. It is, it is not a show. It is like, they watched the erotica set. It's like, it's like Stallone watched all that jazz for research and didn't realize that they were only showing you the dance numbers in all that jazz and not the musical numbers or the dialogue numbers.

And he thought, oh, there's some theaters, like, who would do that?

It's, and it's all, it has all the satan, not satanic, it's got like, like, like, Travolta's-

It's like a Dante's Inferno kind of, a he's descending into hell.

Jesus is in the Jesus, he's in the Jesus.

Yeah, but some of them are in gimp costumes, like in black, like the costumes with bullwhips.

Oh yeah, well that's the third act or whatever of the dancing. Then they get in the gimp shoes.

Anyway, look, but we're still, but here's the thing, and there's an important thing. When Travolta finishes the first movement, dare I say, of this show, he is so, he is so, what's the word I'm looking for? He's ecstatic that he kisses Finola.

Yeah.

And of course, Jackie Clarkson.

In a dip.

Yes, and in a fit of rage, Finola claws at his face with her fingernails, and he's got like a cut eye, which by the way, in every boxing movie, people are like, hey, he's got a cut eye, he can't fight with this cut eye, he's gonna be able to cut me, make you cut me, right? So you're like, he's literally taking beats from the boxing, which would be like, they don't matter. It's a little cut on the side of his eye, he's not gonna be able to see the blinds.

Well, at first, when it happens, you're like, oh my God, did she actually slice his cornea? Like, because he's covered his eye. And it's like, oh no, it's a scratch, like next to his eye, and a little blood, whatever, he's fine. The other thing too that strikes me in this, because first it's all about Tony descending into this stage version of hell.

Like he's the star of the show in a way that Phenola is not in the least.

No, Phenola is then arrives, and my note is there is no Laura, there is only Zul.

Yeah, she looks just like Sigourney Weaver in Ghostbusters, you're absolutely right. She's been like that diaphanous.

Yeah, yeah. And so she is sort of the devil queen of the Devil's Alley, whatever, who's there to try to...

She is the Alley in Satan's Alley.

Yes, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

Do you want to hear what I wrote on my little book here? This is like the Duran Duran Wild Boys video, had sex with a county seat store.

Do you remember County Seat?

Wow.

It was the place where I... It was like my first job in high school, after my paper route, it was like a gap ripoff store that sold ugly clothes that looked like gap clothes, but they were cheaper. No, nevermind.

Yeah.

Yeah, a lot of shoulder pads, cotton sweaters, that kind of shit. Acid wash. Anyway, go on.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's just... But anyway, he ruins it with this kiss because they nail the lift. Like the audience is completely enraptured for inexplicably and the whole crew, everyone is like excited that they're doing the open. It's all going well, but then he ruins it by kissing her. And then...

And then we get quote number 11, which is the director.

Yeah. Yes. Yes. So then we has two encounters with the director and Jackie.

Let's hear the one with the director, please.

You want to fight, you're doing it on your own goddamn time.

The show is the thing, Manero, not you.

The show.

You'll remember that.

I'll remember that.

Yeah, I remember that.

Yeah, I remember that.

Who is he? Joe Pesci?

What is that? Yeah, I remember that.

Anyway, okay.

The other thing is that Jackie is still relentlessly supportive of him, although she does ask, Why did you kiss him?

Why did you kiss her?

Why did you kiss her? And he says, That didn't mean nothing. And that's apparently enough to satisfy her.

Yeah, she's funny.

For the moment.

She's a really, really sweet and accepting person.

She is impossibly angelic. Like, it just feels like this trope of an unrealistically, ideally, ideal levels of devotion that are unearned.

Then we move to the second level, which is the level that I call Lasers. Because the entire second movement of the show is slo-mo with laser tunnels straight out of Mork and Mindy.

And fog.

Lots of fog.

Or the lasers. So after act two of Satan's Alley, that has gone well. So Tony did not fuck it up, and they're doing great. Laura seems to have a bit of a change of heart. She apologizes for scratching him. Yes. And he apologized for kissing her. And then she brazenly asks him out after the show, which also seems so out of the blue.

That's right. Yeah.

But also seems deviously manipulative. Like, does she really want to ask him out? Or is she just trying to screw up his life and his relationship with– and to throw him off? I don't know. Or does she now see him as worthy?

But when he– because this is the moment where he could betray Jackie, and he does and he stands. He says, I've got other commitments.

Yes. And she turns to him and says– So yeah, and then she– as she leaves, she turns back and she's like, I just want to tell you one thing. You don't have it.

Oh!

Oh, how devastating.

Stabbing him.

Stabbing him, because he's being loyal to his girlfriend and not to the evil Temptress.

Right. But it's also like he has this– he's been wrestling with this dueling arrogance and imposter syndrome of that he thinks he deserves to be a star, but he also second-guesses himself as far as does he– is he actually worthy? Does he actually have it? And she is just striking right at that.

Now we get to the third act of Satan's Alley, ladies and gentlemen. And this is with bullwhips. This is men in full-body latex gimp suits. And they have bullwhips. And they're using the bullwhips to try to lasso Tony Manero's character and keep him in hell while he's trying to fight to rise from hell.

And not just keep him in hell, feed him to Zul. Like who's going to devour him?

Yes, or Moloch or somebody like that. And here's what happens. Tony and Fanula, they hate dance. There's literally a whole part of this thing where they're shown in separate frames dancing against each other like a boxing match, except there's no punching because it's dancing.

Yes, because as he's about to be devoured, I may be mixing this up.

I don't fucking know.

There's this beam, a burst of white angelic light and lasers that intervene as a divine deus ex machina that then helps him free himself from the bondage of these BDSM whips just as he's about to be devoured by this metropolis Moloch construct with smoke and zeal. And then, yes, and then there is like this dueling, then he has to like battle the bondage gimp suit dance minions.

Yeah, but then there's like the whole thing. Yeah, but then there's him and Finola like dancing against each other.

And then they have like a dual dance.

Yeah.

That is supposed to be a duet.

Yeah.

But he hijacks it.

And then Tony, and something that you can do on any Broadway show apparently, because the orchestra is fine with it, but he does a solo like an impromptu.

So yeah, he does. He grabs her and like he's spinning her around.

And he throws her into the wings and performs it as a solo, yes.

He gets her in this like elevated straddle position. And then he's spinning her like...

And she's like, Tony, what are you doing? What are you doing? Yeah.

Yeah.

Like Jack and Rose in the lower decks in Titanic, except Laura is screaming because she has like been lifted a loft and he basically does a discus throw of Laura across the stage. She slides into the wings. And then he then turns this duet into a solo.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's insane.

And by the way, doesn't seem to get fired for it.

Also, he is like in only in loincloth at this point.

And a headband.

And a headband, of course.

And leather leg warmers.

Can't forget the headband. But he is dancing, dare I say, foreshadowing Flashdance for his life. Yes. With a ferocity we have not yet seen. Again, it's like the big fight sequence, but he's fighting himself.

Yeah.

I don't know. To get out of heaven. And then this pedestal starts rising.

Yes.

And he gets on the pedestal.

He gets on the pedestal and he's still dancing up a storm. But and Laura is incredulous, still on her ass in the wings. And everyone is like, what is going on? The director is like, what is he doing? He beckons to her then in the final moment, as the pedestal is rising further and further out of reach of the ground, compelling her to leap, to join him on the pedestal, to escape the clutches of the BDSM whip-wielding Satan's Alley of hell. But she's like, ah, she doesn't think she can make it. Can she make it, Javi?

And then they cut to the director going, jump, jump, come on, damn it, damn it, jump. Because it's so intense because it's, you know, and she jumps and he managed to do the elevation that he was able to do.

It was the epic lift of all epic lifts, which we cannot see because it is obscured by a backlit wall of lens flares.

Yeah.

It's, you know, the ineptitude that Stallone shows in filming this is just stacked. Considering what a good director Stallone can be, you know, when you look at, like, you know, Rocky Balboa or Rocky III or, you know, it's like, my God, man, you know, it is the money shot of the movie.

Yep.

And you can't see them.

You can't.

And and that's that brings us to the standing ovation. That is the climax of the film, including Tony's not so apprehensive mother, not so dubious mom.

Yes.

Yes.

Who has this one great last line, which is. Where'd he learn to do this?

Oh, that's right.

That's right.

She can't believe anything she's just seen.

And Tony and then Tony's backstage trying out.

There's a cast party like they're all celebrating.

But Tony's walking away on his own and Jackie catches up to him. And Tony tells her very graciously that he could not have accomplished anything he did today, like throwing the lead dancer in the show into the wings and hijacking the entire third act for himself without her. And but then actually, and you know what, Paul? This is a bad film. This is a bad film made by people who are not in their best when they made it. They probably were snorting a lot of cocaine, doing a lot of steroids, you know, drunk on success from Rambo and a lot of other. But Paul, I must confess that the last line of this movie actually really kind of I thought it was pretty cool because because he says, I just there's just one thing I got to do now. And Jackie's like, what? And he goes, strut. In fact, let's hear that. Let's hear clip number 12.

Producer Brad, you know what I want to do?

But you know what I want to do?

Strut. And he does.

And the entire last five minutes of the week of this movie, credits rolling, is Tony Manero in his leather jacket and his jeans, strutting down Broadway to Times Square. Yep. While the best song in the movie, Staying Alive, which by the way-

The title song.

Yeah, which is-

Of the movie.

The best thing in this movie is from the previous film.

Yeah. We don't get till the very end, and it feels tacked on and psychotic because he literally just abandons Laura. He leaves her. We have gone through all this movie. Yeah, but it's kind of cool. To get him to admit his love for her.

Oh, Jackie.

Commit to her, and then they leave the party together.

No, no. He's got a strut.

But then-

He's not in the little party with her. No, he leaves the party alone.

He's got a strut. But then he leaves the building after he's taken her from the party to then go strut by himself. Yeah, he's got a strut.

He's referred to back to his Brooklyn set up, which he's trying to escape.

He's a narcissist. It's insane.

But you know what it is? Here's why I love this end beat, because it's sort of like, for me, the way that you stay alive in this, it's almost like the James Bond theme, you know? It's like when he says, I'm going to go, you know what I want to do? Strut. It's almost like Bond, James Bond. Ba-da-da-da-da!

But you don't sit through an entire Bond movie and then not hear the Bond theme until the end.

Oh, not true. Not true. There's a little movie called Quantum of Solace. Perhaps you've heard of it. And it is led to by the end of Casino Royale, in which they never play the James Bond theme until he shoots the bad guy in the kneecap at the end of Casino Royale. In Casino Royale, the James Bond theme does not play until the very end and that's true.

We get hints of it though.

Oh, come on.

But we do not get it in its full glory.

I'm just saying, I'm just saying, I'm just saying, this is not the, you're, I'm saying that I may not be right, but you're not wrong. And neither am I. Brad, producer.

I will say, I will say that when that moment happened, I smiled and kind of washed away the whole Satan's Alley.

Yes. Right? OK, producer Brad.

I mean, it's the best scene of the film, sadly.

Yeah, producer Brad.

Thank God we get that at the end.

Producer Brad, can you tell us how well this movie did in the box office? What happened? Just get us out of here. Get us out of here.

Staying Alive opened on July 15th, 1983. It was number one at the box office, earning $12.1 million.

Wow.

It was the eighth highest grossing film of 1983 and ranks $1,460 all time with $63.8 million, $20,000 behind Guillermo del Toro's The Shape of Water and $15,000 ahead of In-N-Out with Kevin Kline.

I thought you were going to say Guillermo del Toro's Pacific Rim, which I was like, wow, it's an Guillermo sandwich. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Yeah, Paul, any lasting impact, final thoughts? What are you thinking?

I don't know if you noticed, but among the...

I sense the faint disdain for the project. Is that...

Do you know who one of the people who's considered to be director was? Who?

John Badham?

Patricia Birch from Grease 2. Well, John Badham, but he was not available. He had a very busy year.

I know. He directed a little thing called Saturday Night Fever. I remember that.

Oh my God.

No, but he did...

He did War Games and he did Lutheran.

He was not available.

Yeah, he's a little bit...

But Patricia Birch from Grease 2 was on the list.

Oh, wow.

What could have been?

The mind boggles.

The mind boggles, yes.

So two closing thoughts. One is among the various razzle dazzle on Times Square of the closing shot. In the bottom left corner, there is a movie theater marquee. Did you see what was playing in the movie theater?

See you next Tuesday? What? I don't know what. See you next Wednesday? ET. Oh, wow.

ET.

Yeah, we should have gone to see that.

So, yeah, probably. Who knows? But so, yeah, this is a bad movie.

I am planning on forgetting this film entirely the moment we stop recording and get on with my life.

I really did not enjoy so much of this movie. I found so much of it painful and misbegotten, ill-conceived, mentally excruciating and frustrating. But it strangely grew on me, as it became more and more insane, and as also I got in the home stretch and realized, oh, it's going to end. I am going to make it.

Right, right, right.

There's something to be said for that.

Once you realize the film had an endpoint, your mortality seemed less of a concern, and you could relax and enjoy the film.

Yeah, I knew that I would not forever be damned to Satan's Alley. And I emerged appreciating life just a little bit more than I did when I started the film. But by no means should anyone take that as a recommendation.

My biggest note on this film is considering the subject matter, is that it is not nearly gay enough. Like, literally, this film literally is so heterosexual. And it's like, are we on Broadway, guys? You have no idea what you're doing. You got Bob Mackie and you still have no idea what you're doing.

So many missed opportunities.

Yeah, but so that's my only thing. Producer Brad, what's playing next week? Get us out of here, what?

Next week is July 22nd, 1983, and three movies open on that weekend. Oh, my goodness. You get some choices. Here is the first one, Class with Rob Lowe, sex comedy with Rob Lowe and Declan Bissett.

I remember it vividly.

We're in the early 80s, lots of sex comedies. The next is option number two, Jaws 3D, Dennis Quaid and your favorite, Bess Armstrong and Simon McCorkindale from Sword and the Sorcerer.

Yes.

Also, Manimal.

Yeah.

Option three, Mr. Mom, Michael Keaton, Martin Moll.

It's Mr. Mom.

It's for Lloyd.

Mr. Mom.

A movie I actually saw.

110, 112, whatever it takes.

This summer. And Michael Keaton. I am going to say.

Do go on.

We still do have two films I don't want to forget about or neglect in the expanse of this summer.

What are they?

And there was part of me that after watching this movie.

You want to watch Flashdance? You want to watch Flashdance?

I was kind of like, I kind of want to watch Flashdance. Look. I've never seen it. And do you know who produced Flashdance?

Joel Silver?

Jerry Bruckheimer.

Oh yeah. Somebody like that. Yeah. Here's what I'll say, Paul. Mr. Mom's going to be in theaters a while because it was a hit.

Yes. And Valley Girl with early Nic Cage is also still on the table, I believe.

Is it produced, Brad?

Here's what's also in the theaters. We have Flashdance, Porky's 2, Twilight Zone.

Oh, Valley Girl. Is that what I said?

And Fanny and Alexander by Ingmar Bergman, yeah.

I'm going to get you guys to watch it.

Paul, Paul, here's what we're going to do. Okay? I'll forego Mr. Mom for another week because I know it's going to be in the theaters for a while. You get to pick one of the two, but I'm not going to sit through both Flashdance and Valley Girl, so you got to make the choice.

I feel there is a cosmic compulsion that one of my cinematic oversights that must be redeemed is I need to see Flashdance.

Ladies and gentlemen, we are going to the land of the leg warmer and the torn sweatshirt.

It is Pittsburgh.

Are we calling Summer of 83, Paul's Summer of Redemption? How many of these films has he seen for the first time? Redemption or-

I was very young.

Redemption or Damnation, I'm not sure which is which, but we'll get to it.

There are a lot of non-genre movies. One other thing I need to share.

Who are you, Columbo? Come on, man.

It's- Oh, but this might be life-changing for listeners-

You said better take less than five minutes, Paul.

And our co-host and producer who were in the greater Los Angeles area.

Yes.

Choreography for this film was done by Dennon and Sayhber Rawls. Those names don't necessarily need to mean anything to you. But here's the thing. They are still alive and, dare I say, kicking and teaching dance classes to this very day.

Well, we must all go take one and film it.

That you can sign up for and go take from the choreographers-

Of Satan's Alley.

Of Satan's Alley? In LA.

Ladies and gentlemen, whether producer Brad and I do this or not shall remain a mystery. However, what is not a mystery is we are going to watch- It's no mystery, I'm not doing it. We are going to watch Flash Dance next week.

I challenge our listeners.

And until then-

You can hear it calling.

Until, until, until then.

Dance!

Fire!

Oh God, Paul!

No, until then, we will see you in line at the Multiplex. Catch you later.