welcome to Zombies Trains the podcast that watches all the zombie movies

This week we have a movie without any zombies or are there zombies hidden somewhere in the film?

It's nineteen sixty five's Bunny Lake is Missing.

You know, I've seen people act like that in pictures. What do they call them, zombies or something?

Zombie.

Zombies?

What's a zombie?

Well a zombie…there’s um... ...Mr. Bill there’s... ...the living dead.

They are the living dead.

Get me the zombies!

Against an army of zombies, no armies could stand!

The unburied dead are coming back to life and seeking human victims.

I’ve seen the dead rise.

Welcome to zombie strains. I'm John. And I'm Andy. Hey, Andy, how long into the movie Bunny Lake is missing. Did you understand the assignment? It was... So I'm not sure if I correctly have the assignment understood. But I think I figured out what was why we were watching this movie about halfway through. Okay, so here's the assignment. And I want you actually tell our listeners, uh, well, let me pause for a second. So nobody's to bread this week. And you're about to find out why. So, and we mentioned it in the previous episode, but we'll just explain it here. So Andy, how did this episode come about? Yes. Well, so we are in between seasons. We just wrapped up season two in which we covered zombie movies from the 50s and 60s. In just a couple very shortly, we are going to start a new season where we enter in the scary 70s to see what zombie films await us there. but we have a little bit of space in between where Brad is doing some prep work to prepare for the new season. And John and I figured we'd use this opportunity to do a couple of special or just a little side episodes about some zombie-related, definitely zombie-related stuff. And so Brad came to us on that idea. He said, I have a movie you guys should watch and cover, but I need you not to read anything about it before you click play to start watching it. That's right. John, I was, I, I stuck to that script. Did you cheat and look this up before you watched it? I did not. I was doing it. So John and I went into this blind and notably, uh... normally in as we are covering other films in the sixties uh... in order to give us any hint about what we are going to find in it so i knew nothing i clicked on it in the movie started and it just said bunny lake is missing and i'm like what is this so so here's the assignment and he that you did not perhaps understand yeah and you have to know producer bread this is something i love about producer bread so he loves more than anything trivia, long-form projects, and doing like archival stuff, right? So, um, but if he knows a piece of trivia or knows something fun, he doesn't just tell you, you have to you have to work. Okay, so the assignment here and these are let me give an example of another thing that he did a couple of years ago and I found this delightful some people find this like you mentioned in our pre show that it felt a little bit like a practical joke and it kind of is but it isn't really so let me tell you this story yeah he sent me a link he said listen to this song and tell me what you think and who the singer is Like, okay. So the song was one of the, you know, the song was these are the days by a band called in Hayler, which is a current band. They've released three albums listening to the song. I'm like, boy, that sure sounds like Bono singing. So I messaged Brad and I said Bono sounds really young in this song and Brad said that's because it's Bono's son in this band in Hayler And I never heard of the band. I didn't know Bono's he knows I love YouTube and Bono I didn't know he had a son. I didn't know any of this so but he knew I would love this fact Do it but he's not just gonna tell me he's gonna make a little adventure about out of it and and that's what he did today So here was the assignment Andy Figure out why this movie with no zombies, why he picked it and told us why to watch it. Where's the Easter egg in this movie that we have to find to know why he picked it? And I found it and I don't think we should reveal it until we get there. I'm just wondering if you found it too. So I certainly found what I think is the Easter egg. Okay, so I think we should not even spoil it for ourselves, but I think we should just stumble across it organically as we discussed the past. Yes, sounds good. And then maybe we have different Easter eggs in mind, Well, let me first say, let's do the producer Brad bit. He's not here today, and I will do that. Bunny Lake is missing was released in 1965. Rather than other 1965 films, I've listed the zombie movies we watched in 1965, which are Dr. Orlov's monster, and the episode of The Man from Uncle of very important zombie affair. So this film was based on a book. It was published in 1957, and it was also called Bunny Lake is Missing. It was written by a woman named Miriam Modell, her she went by the pen name Evelyn Piper. The film is directed by Otto Preminger, who is a legend. He directed a bunch of new art films, including Fallen Angel, Angel Face, but he also directed a lot of more famous films. He directed a film version of Anatomy of a Murder. style like 17 and Exodus. So a lot of sort of post World War II, World War II kind of films, and he's known as a sort of thriller director which definitely suits this movie. It was written by John and Penelope Mortimer. They were husband and wife team. John went on to write about 90 films, nothing super famous. Penelope was his wife. They wrote nine films together, so they were a writing team, and they may have continued to be so and just credit it differently for, you know, political reasons and Hollywood. I don't actually know I didn't dig into them that much, but their composer was Paul Glass, no relation to Philip. He did scores for about nine films, and I think the score here is very good, so I just wanted to mention that. All right, so here's the exciting part, this to us in our normal zombie movie. So the lead of the film whose name is Anne Lake is played by Carol Lynn Lynn Lee she is great in this film but she's also been in every British TV show she was just a working actress from about here till about the early 2000s just other highlights she was in the Poseidon adventure you know. If you loved early 80s TV, she was on multiple episodes of fantasy island and heart to heart, you know, just all that kind of stuff. And just a working actor that worked for a long time, and she started in several films, and then just kept, you know, she was not a superstar her whole life, but just kept being a working actor like so many of the people that we run into in these things. Okay, here's the other names however. The first the first name is care delay. He's been in one of the really big film, but he's largely a stage actor. Did you recognize him, Andy? I did not. He plays Dave Bowman in 2001 a space out of sight. Oh, that's so obvious now that you say it. Okay. And he's kind of like Duane Jones. He stayed in the theater. He wanted to be a theater actor. He Also, he got five minutes in 2010 Space Odyssey in the late 80s for which he was paid one million dollars at the time that was an extraordinary extraordinary sum because he didn't want to do it. He's a stage actor, but he had to do like he had to play like the ghost of Dave Bowman in the sequel and so they paid him a good Gillian dollars to act next to Roy Scheider for five minutes. And then we have, as the police inspector in this film, Lawrence Olivier. So if you're a certain age, like a jet-exer, you consider Lawrence Olivier one of the great actors. If I can give you some of his films, he obviously did a hamlet, he'd have Richard the third. His Henry the fifth was considered the ultimate Henry the fifth until Kenneth Brandt It was the, it was like a production of Henry the fifth as set in the, in the 15th century, or in the 1600s. And so like you've got to see back stage and like like the Earl's in dukes and these actors who are playing all these different parts are tossing off mugs of ale in the background and like it's a great movie if you want to see it. Also more relevant and more modern he was in the Battle of Britain of course he was in Marathonman with Dustin Hoffman and he was in the boys from Brazil with Gregory Peck and I like to tell little Lawrence Olivier stories because If a lot of you just say like if we were if you were to say today like like who is the actor right you you might say somebody like Meryl Streep right who's just like head and shoulders above everybody else He might also say like Daniel Day Lewis right of course Lawrence would have hated Daniel to he would have Loved Daniel Day Lewis because he loved method actors He came up with a biography in the late 80s and I would like to tell a story from it which was he was working on Marathon man with Dustin Hoffman A young Dustin Hoffman, who is a method actor, and when they did their scenes together, Dustin would come in and he would have gone out, so it's, I won't tell you the whole plot of the movie, but his character, Dustin Hoffman's character, runs, he's a runner, and so he has a scene where Lawrence the Olivier's character is torturing him, he's trapped to a charity, he's doing dental torture on him. Doran Sylvia is playing an ex, uh, cancer, concentration camp doctor. And, uh, so Dustin would come into the do their scenes and he would have done, he's like, uh, I ran all these miles. I ran like 10 miles this morning. He'd be complete. He's sweating, complete, mass and Lord Sylvia looked at him and said, my dear boy, if you would simply learn to act, you wouldn't have to do any of this. So, you know, if that's like my favorite Lord, so let me give you a type story. So, in any case, good. Yeah, he's the ultimate kinglier, you know, he did everything. There's two other people I want to mention, really quick, and then we can get into it. So, there's a woman named Anne Massey who plays Elvira, the manager of the school. She's like a hered woman who's, you know, whose cook is just quit and like she's definitely of that guy. She's been in every British TV show. If you watch tomorrow, or small it in this movie, is that I believe so. Yes, Miss Mark. Yes, I'm like a very like she pops out on the screen. Yeah, absolutely. And she was in the importance of being earnest. The machinist. She's been an average. She was in puaro. Name a British TV show. She's been in it. Uh, so you were, I recognized her as somebody. There's like, oh, hey, it's that person. Now, the other one is this guy, Clive Reveal, he's another that guy. He was in a bridge too far, but also he was in every 80s and 90s sci-fi show. He's was in Babylon five. Star Trek the next generation like he did the circuit of three episodes in every big genre show at the time. Most importantly for you and I, Andy, however, is he was the voice of Imperial Officer number two in Xwing versus Typhide or the Vogue. So of course, there you go. Who could forget that now? Yeah, if you look up Clive Revel, it's R-E-V-I-L-L, you'll be like, oh, that guy. Yeah, you're making that. So in any case, there is another actor I'd like to mention when we get to it, but I'm not going to mention it now because it'll be more delightful later. So Andy, right off the gate, we're going to go into this, but what did you think of this film? So I enjoyed this one, John. It's a good movie. I found this to be a real delight. So like we rarely get to see, it's been sort of since I walked with a zombie, I wanna say, maybe not that long, but like where you see a professional at the height of their powers, acting with other professionals who are at the height of their powers, like this movie just couldn't be bad. You can tell, we've watched so many bad movies, and I say bad, you know, in a loving way. that you I can now tell within like 30 seconds just by how the camera is being operated when they're working. Yeah, just for the record, this get headed as a tomato meter rating of 86 in a popcorn meter of. 77 and has like a 7.3 out of 10 on IMDB so for a for a 50 60 year old movie to get ratings that good obviously people still reflect it. Yeah, I know we should probably pause and say this is a movie this is a mystery and a thriller. Yeah, I would call the twist twisty personalities and you know it is a joy to watch it unfold on the screen. Yeah, so this is one of those cases where I might say, if we start talking about this and it sounds interesting, you might just want to quick pause the podcast and go watch it because I found this to be a worthwhile film. Yeah, it's a psychological thriller and it's a really good one. Yeah. Yeah. So how do you want to kick this off, John? Well, I just want to say, I think we should just get into the plot of the movie. And then, you know, there's a couple of things I want to pull out as we go, but let's just, let's just go for it. You're, you're driving today, any? Yeah, you bet. I'll, I'll do a quick 30 second summary. And then let's just provide, let's do kind of what we did with, um, We bury the dead where we map out like the three acts of the movie and we can each talk about stuff that jumped out of at us from those rather than going through the entire plot, which is pretty meandering and twisty. So yes, do you want me to do a 60 second summary of the film before? Yeah, sure. Why don't you do the summary. it might even be shorter than that. Yeah. So the movie starts with two people. They are moving house and we see one of them going to a school to drop off her daughter for preschool. It's we don't have it seen the daughter. We just see the woman Sarah, is it Sarah? It's Anne Lake. and her brother Stevie. We don't know what we think they're married at first, but they're actually brother and sister. So Carolyn Linley is Anne Lake and Keer Delay is Steve. So we see them. They're moving house. They're moving into a new apartment. The mother Anne has just stopped by daycare essentially British daycare. It's said in England to drop off her daughter. Later she comes back to get her and and her husband or student, her brother, doesn't know where her daughter is either. Nobody at the school knows where she is. They call the police, the police can't find her. However, as the movie unfolds, you start to wonder if Bunny is the daughter's name. Her name is Felicia, but they call her Bunny. If Bunny is real, And if she is real, where is she? And if she's not real, what is really going on here? And we'll talk about that as we get to the end. So if that intrigues you, stop and go, go watch the movie. It's worth it, not that, also if you don't feel like it, like, we'll entertain you for 45 minutes on this movie. So you might have just enjoyed that too. Okay, I think that's a good enough summary, Andy, to get started. So the bulk of this act is two things. First, it's Anne going over to this very charmingly British daycare to drop a bunny off for the, for part of the day. She has some interactions there with the cook at the school, who's later going to become kind of an important character. and having finished moving in and heads back to the daycare to pick up money. When she gets there though, she wanders in. There's this very fun scene where there's like 40 moms packed into the foieye of the school, all picking up their kids might be somewhat familiar if you yourself have gone through that ritual of picking your kid up from school or daycare. But imagine, instead of your daycare, it's like a brownstone house in Chicago. It's tightly packed and all 40 people are packed So this was a, we'll see what you want to pull out of this, John. So this scene really captured that feeling that I think every parent has had on at least a couple of occasions of like losing track of your kid. Yes, it is a moment of realization and panic. terrifying experience and you see her, her start to get a little nervous as most of the moms pick up their kids and leave, but Bunny still hasn't showed up. And then she starts asking other parents, hey, have you seen my kid, Bunny? She asks some of the other students, hey, do you see Bunny? has seen can you remember seeing bunny who and describes in great detail, like what she was doing and everything like that, a blueprint for a dress with red stockings. Yeah, and we come to learn that not only has no one seen bunny or claims that they haven't seen bunny, but they claim to not have any records that bunny was ever even enrolled in the school. So this first act is bunny is Anne's increased panic. She calls her brother to come at his boss's house, I think, which is a big mansion, big mansion. She calls her brother into help search, and then they basically go room to room through the school, and ultimately they wind up calling the police. It becomes a whole big deal. So there's quite a bit of incident happens in this act of John. Yes. What do you want to call out? Let me start with a little thing I want to call out, and then I want to hear what. When Ann is first bringing Bunny to the school and she winds up in the school kitchen She's talking to a cook and the cook is preparing a whole bunch of do you remember what she's preparing? Yeah, because I still find that she think this is a little thing because I looked I've done research on this because it's so great me too That she's preparing junk it which I have not ever heard that no as a food So I don't know what research you did. I just went the Wikipedia route and I had to go like three Wikipedia searches deep to figure out exactly what this is. Do you want me to read just the definition of junket? Yes, please. creating a delicate custard-like pudding that's light and easy to digest, often flavored with sugar vanilla or nutmeg and served with fruit or cream. Well, that's great. I mean, it sounds nasty. That's great, but what is Renett? Well, I didn't know what that was either. So another Wikipedia search, Renett is, and you're really going to start salivating it. Yeah. Renett is, quote, That's great, too. That sounds even nasty or what is a new mammal? Mammal. So another Google search, and a room in it mammal, is basically a grazing herbivore. OK, great, awesome. And the best thing about the junk it is, the cook, and everybody else is telling my how terrible the junket at the school is, then late in a later scene Lawrence Olivier's police inspector comes in and he's like, is that junket? Yeah, I love the stuff. Like, yeah, that might be the funniest bit in the whole movie. The internet claimed to me that Junket is popular in both the UK and America. I'm American. I've never heard of it. If you grew up eating Junket and you love it, please write in and let us know about the experience. Yeah. I wonder if it goes by another name. Maybe it's cottage cheese or something. I don't know. Yeah. I'd like disgusting. So. Yes, so all right, that's a little side step though, John, what did you pull out of act one where Anne is desperately searching for bunny and gets the school authorities in the police and her brother all involved in the search? Yeah, I have I have three things that I like to pull in. You want me to do them all now or should we all? Yeah, just so that's a large number. So first of all, the director premieres sets us up perfectly. Because The very first scene is Steve walking by a swing that is still moving and picking up a toy bear off the ground. That's the very first thing you see in this movie. So the idea that Bunny Lake is, the movie is, it gets pretty quickly to the idea that Bunny Lake is made up, but every time somebody said that, I went back to that very first shot of the swing still moving, and I'm like, but is she made up? You know? So that was one thing. Second thing is, the tension he builds in this scene of her like all the parents and then all the kids leaving like he does not rush it and the actors in it are great and you know you know Carol who's playing and controls her tension really well like yes she starts off not worried But the way she escalates over the next five or 10 minutes is perfectly acted and the way the director does it, where it seems like a common place issue that slowly devolves into a serious issue. Like this is why, this is like old-timey filmmaking at its best. It's like a 15-minute sequence that you can't stop watching. You know, a more modern film and I'm not complaining about modern films, we just drop this on you. Like you just do a cut and she's screaming for her daughter and like what's going on? You know, we let it burn until we feel her panic as well. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, what else you got? And the last one is, she has this horrible neighbor who's the landlord. And he's super creepy like he comes into her house and invited and like won't leave and is sort of talking in all this innuendo to her. He is apparently a well singer who sings on the BBC. Um, and he's an absolute creeper, but the fast thing about that is did you catch who played Horatio Wilson. I didn't a null coward the playwright from like the 30s. He wrote all these like Queenie, um, gossipy plays about people being horrible and saying horrible things to each other. Who is very famous is being like, uh, A very sort of risk-a author, and he would always, I remember Jonathan Price was doing an improv version of Noel Coward at one point, and he said, we talked so much about so and so and all of it was awful, you know, like he's a horrible gossip and he was, yeah, he sort of, he was, he was big, like, like, think about him in the setting of the great gaps, gaps be being a chronicler of that time and how horrible everybody is. That's the kind of playwright he was. Anyway, I didn't realize that until after the movie and I thought that was perfect because he's such a creeper, and so it was not awkward. Yeah, absolutely. He's obsessed. He's got this huge collection of African masks like tribal masks. And this is where So of course you got to remember we're watching this and you know the question that's running in the back of me and John's head is so where where the zombies right so this is where I first perked up like because oh, is this some sort of, um, are we establishing some sort of a connection to a tribal culture that's you know going to have some sort of. zombie connection here. That's where my main mind went. The film, in fact, is that is not what the film is doing at all, but it did make me wonder. And it uses those masks, for example, as an anchor point. Yes, like when she unpacks a lot of things on the bed, he has set the mask there in the camera. The lingers on it for a minute and then later when she returns and all the things are missing, the mask is still there. So, and it has the same shot. So, there's a lot of creative stuff he does Yeah, the other thing I want to mention just what this act does is it introduces us to a number of basically weird or fishy individuals. Yes. So one of them is ratio Wilson the creepy landlord. who continues to be creeped throughout the movie and is gonna really start. And he revels in his creepiness. And if you know who Noel Coward is, then that will make sense too. It's some real uncomfortable, effectively uncomfortable scenes with him. They also meet a very strange woman who is one of the owners of the daycare. Yes. This is Mrs. Ford and she is an old lady who lives up in this sort of attic flat above the school. And she is, how would you describe her, John? She is, they, uh, steely describes her as the, is the, is the witch who lives upstairs. She's a very strange woman. She's a shut-in, and she's one of those people who seem kind of crazy, but also incredibly wise. Yeah. she's doing, she claims to be working on a book about children's dreams. Yes. And so she's often listening to tape recordings of children describing their dreams and nightmares. So we don't, it's not immediately clear what either of these two people, why they might want to, like kidnap bunny, for example. Right. But they're also too weird. to, they're just too weird to put them out of suspicion. And the third suspicious person is, is you have the sense throughout this, and I think this is really good filmmaking, that something is up with, with brother Steve that you just can't put your finger on. Yes, and you know what's funny about that is that I thought he was a little intense, but I like I figured he was just being in a rude American, you know, yeah, and my wife was she was like doing her thing in the morning and I she was she was like paying the bills at a computer on the table behind me as I'm watching this on the TV. and she sort of was walking in and on one point she stops and looks at him and goes, is he the bad guy? I'm like, I'm like, no, and I said, I don't think so, or no, she said, is he the villain and I'm like, I don't know that there is a villain in this movie because at that point I was pretty sure Bunny didn't exist. Anyway, so she picked up that vibe and I did not, so I think it's interesting that she did as well. But yeah, there is something off about him. Yeah, so the only other thing I want to mention about that first act is, once the police get there, you know, and the police superintendent is Lawrence Olivier, yes, and a really good it's a really well in the most, you know, how many British TV shows and movies is there a lead inspector, right, what superintendent like the lead of the case. And that Lawrence Olivier just takes that role. He doesn't show the scenery, but he makes his character seem relatable, human, interesting in the other people, and very charming all at once. So a great, yeah. One of the last discoveries they make is that someone, the bunny's toys and toiletries and stuff have vanished from Anne's flat. Correct. So we, the viewers saw these things earlier in the movie. We haven't seen bunny, but we have seen like her toothbrush and stuff on the bathroom shelf and things. And when Bunny, when Anne gets back to the flat, and the police are out doing their manhunt, she discovers that it seems that someone has come into her flat and taken all of Bunny's stuff, like as if to remove evidence that she existed. Yeah, and this is feeling very eminant, Shamalan, to me, like, oh, that didn't really happen. Only she saw it. So at this point in the movie, I'm like, Okay, so like like she's crazy that's what I'm thinking. Yes, and yes, so act two is, you know, the bulk of the film and a ton happens here. I'll try not to get to deep in the weeds. Yeah. The big stuff this is this is the act by the way where I think I figured out what Brad was getting to but we'll get to that in a minute. Let's first talk about some of the plot stuff. So an act to the man-hunt is on in full, but so is everybody's growing suspicion that bunny is a figment of Anne's imagination correct. So there is a lot of back and forth with the police. A lot of procedural. This is the procedural portion of the movie where Lawrence Olivier's superintendent is just putting the pieces of the case together. Yes. And so he's doing things like they're trying to track down any possible witnesses that might have seen bunny. You know, did the bus driver remember seeing a bunny? What, you know, did, what boat did they come in on from America? Does, you know, is there, is there a bunny on the passenger list? So they're, they're running down all of those leads. Yeah. While, everyone is increasingly starting to think that Anne is imagining things. And this is where Steve starts to become a more complicated character. Yes. And at first, Acty comes across as really overbearing obnoxious American, but enthusiastic in the defense of his sister. However, in Act 2, he starts like coming to Bunnies or Anne's defense in ways that actually subtly suggests that Anne is crazy. Is that a good way to put it? That is a good way to put it. Yeah. So one of the things, for example, that Steve kind of leaks to one of the characters is that when Anne was a young girl, she had an an imaginary friend named Bunnies who was a little girl when she was a kid and liked to imagine that Bunny was her daughter exactly. So, you know, that's starting to look pretty damning for Anne. So, what other plot important stuff happens here, John, that we should cover before her, we talk about what I think is the easter egg. Yeah, so as the superintendent becomes more suspicious, I think he is trying to investigate the reality of the situation. And it's really, it's really, it's really Lawrence Olivier's performance that that keeps him both practical and grounded that keeps the movie driving. He's the skeptic, right? We've now moved from Carol's perspective as the panic mother to uh... the superintendent's perspective as the skeptical policemen and now he's driving the second act of the movie Yeah. So let me think if there's anything else. So this act kind of this act ends when and remembers something that might be an important clue that could strongly suggest that bunny was real. So let's call that the end of act to John. There a lot happens in this act. Yeah. I think there's not really a lot of profit in going through the details because a lot of it is just interesting conversations and sometimes tense conversations between Anne, the police inspector, the in the Rogues gallery of weirdos that we've met as you try and piece this all together. So I, there is a delight, a really good scene in a pub. where Anne and the police inspector are talking and the inspector is trying to kind of the inspector is trying to balance like his skepticism of bunny's reality with what seems to be a genuine care for Anne as a person. Again, it's Olivier just makes this sort of, you could this could be a one-dimensional character just going after the facts, he makes him, he suddenly Yeah, exactly. And so, but it was in this pub scene, John, that I think I figured out Brad's game is the thing. Okay, well, what do you want me to describe it or do you want me or do you want to? Why don't you describe it, and then I'd like to fill in some background information on this whole thing. So, where did you find it? Like, just describe where you found it and what it was. All right. Yeah. So in the background while they're talking, you can hear the audio of a TV playing. Yes, the news and they're reporting on, you know, the search for the missing American girl, etc. etc. At one point, the bartender reaches up and changes the channel in the TV and it flips to a, a, a, a, a music performance. Yeah. I don't think tap of the pop existed yet, but it is a British TV show where bands are performing on TV. Yes. And let me see hang on. I jotted this down with the maybe listeners. If you are a fan of oldies, the song being sung is called Remember You. So no, I think it's just out of reach. Oh, is it just out of reach. Oh, yeah. Anyway, you may be you remember one or two of the songs because they are sung by a band called. the zombies. Yes. So. Okay. Let's pause and talk. Let's pause and talk. So again, I'm not so I think two things are happening here. I'm not saying about the movie. I'm now talking about producer Brad. So one is he found this delightful fact about the band to zombies and found out they were in this movie. He knows full well this movie has nothing to do. but he loved that piece of trivia. He was hoping we would find it and I think the other thing that he's doing here is he's rewarding us for sitting through months of really tough movies with a really good movie. Like this is a good movie we're enjoying watching. It's almost like a reward. But I want to say like this really speaks to producer Brad's interests really well. So when producer Brad pitched you and I on this podcast, he said I really want to do something long form and he said like what about all the zombie movies and we were like oh that sounds fun but one of his inspirations was that and this is where everything sort of comes together we're now decoding producer bread is that the other thing producer bread loves is music and old music and new music and all of it he loves covers he makes lists playlists everything one of his favorite podcasts he tried to get me into before we did this one This guy is producing an episode every other week detailed research on hit songs in the in the hot in the billboard 100 charts from like the 60s through today and every episode is just one song and so his love of music and his love of these detailed facts and these long form projects. is kind of how we got to this exact point. Do you have any sense? It does, yeah. So hey, can you want me to take a minute to just do 30 seconds on the history of the zombies the band? Yeah, tell us a little bit about the zombies, Andy. All right, so the zombies. So first of all, Brett, are John, do you know the zombies? I heard the name, but I don't know them. And when I first looked up this song, it was actually recorded by somebody else. This is very common in the 60s and 70s. The dance would cover songs written by other people. So it's originally written by a very different person and sung in the 1961. And they turned it in the zombies, turned it into a rock and roll song. Okay, yeah, so I don't know the zombies rule. I do know their first hit. She's not there, which is it is a banger. I've got it on a playlist or two. Yep. So the zombies are British band. They formed in the early 60s as the Mustangs. They changed their name to the zombies. Although from what I can tell and this is just, you know, Google search and Wikipedia level here Brad level research. It sounds like the name change of the zombies was more for fun than a carefully thought out like So they landed their first big hit in 1964 with the single she's not there, which I could say has a good song. Go fire it up. Yep. Their first album was a huge success in the US and a few other countries, but frustratingly for them not in their native UK, which was disillusioning for the band and caused financial problems. Interesting. They recorded a new album but they broke up before it was released. Ironically, the album came out and it was a massive hit and came to be seen as their masterpiece, yeah. But they had broken up and even after the success, they refused calls by everyone to get back to give it a band back together. Interesting. So this is exactly the same time as the Beatles are taking off by the audience. Yes. So this is part of the British invasion, the saga there. when the album was a hit, but the band was no longer available to tour, unscrupulous promoters, particularly in the US, of course. I'll put together fake versions of fake the zombies bands and sent them around on tour. And I did a little bit of digging because that's a fascinating thing. And this wasn't super uncommon. There were fake animals and fake arches and other things. Any time there was a hot band, but you weren't able, you as the promoter weren't able to bring it to your part of the world. And option open to you was to like gather together up some randas and call them call them the band and tour them around as the band that's in last little bit of trivia. One of these fake the zombies band contained two future members of Zizi top. That is the best piece of trivia we've had in a long time. I will say the way we do that today is like and I can't remember the names I remember somebody telling me about this, but a lot of like big. Like metal acts right like speed metal acts that can't maybe they're from Europe or they're from America and they can't get all over the world They actually have authorized cover bands who kind of tour in their place and they have their own sort of legacy and Fans so it's like a whole thing, but it's all about it's all on the table. It's all above board. It's very strange Well, just I'll just wrap up the zombies history bit by, um, so after that the zombies did get back together, they all went their various ways into some say to music, some went into other jobs, they occasionally kind of would regroup for a show here or there, but it wasn't. All the way in the 2010s, they actually did regroup as the zombies and they released new material into the 2020s, like think about, you know, oh my god, they're non-infinity, yeah. So as of now though, I think a couple key members are either retired and at least one has passed away. So I think the sun has set on the zombies, but that is a kind of a wild musical journey. It's awesome and producer Brad would be proud of that research in it just okay and but of course at the very beginning of this journey they appear on a TV and above in this movie yeah and now in act three they're going to show up again, but so why don't we switch to act three. Yeah, sounds good. Okay, so act three things take a big turn and this really shifts from being a mystery. Sort of to a psychological mystery to being a thriller. Yes, right? And so let me try to succinctly sum this up. It starts. It starts with the revelation basically that brother Steve is the bad guy. Yes, can I say something here? Yes, I have a factoid. I've been remiss. I didn't rather Steve drives a car. Oh, I was going to ask you that. This car is called a son-beam tiger. We have had one other character drive this car. One of our favorite characters. any guesses on who that might have been it's a doctor say it is doctor say yes it's a sharp looking little car yeah would this have been a high end vehicle that you can very well yes it would it would okay you know yes maybe not like Porsche but it's like a nice it's like a nice British sports car Okay, well, the Insighting Incident here of Act 3 where we do this shift to a thriller is and remembers hey brothers Steve dropped off one of Bunny's dolls at a local toy shop. that's to be repaired. And if I can go, it's still there at the toy shop, presumably. If I've got the receipt for it, if I can go back and produce that doll, that's going to prove or at least strongly suggest that Bunny was real. So it's late at night and Brother Steve is trying to persuade her to not do this, but she runs off on her own. at night and she kind of forces her way into the this the world's creepiest toy store. It's nothing but just imagine doll heads arms and legs all over the place, but it's dark and only lit by a lamp. And you know, there's no ceiling light or whatever you have to use a lantern. So she talks to this creepy old doll maker guy in there. who says, uh, yeah, I think I remember that. You'll need to go find it yourself. It's in the world's creepiest basement. Uh, the basement where I keep all the doll heads. Yeah. Yeah. The third act of this movie is let's see what creepy weird situations we can put Anne in. Yes, exactly. Yeah. So she goes down there and she does indeed find the doll. Now we haven't seen this doll. Right. And I thought they were Yes, this was I would say this was a little bit confusing. Yeah. Yeah, but at any rate she finds the doll, but who and so she is very excited about this revelation, who shows up the John to help her out her brother her brother Steve now can I say something before we get to there please one thing that I think is interesting and they reveal one thing they reveal it's not it's subtle isn't the right word, but they don't spell it out for you. Clearly, they have a weird relationship and they show it like a dysfunctional one and they show it early in this act by having Steve be taking a bath. Yes, this was a weird scene. And he shouts to Anne, he's like, well, you bring me another cigarette. And so she walks up to her brother as he's in the bath, lights a cigarette and puts it in his mouth. So there's this really intimate moment between brother and sister that just feels a little off-base in a conventional relationship, you know? Yeah, absolutely. Well, when brother Steve, when he arrives in the, he meets Anne in the toy shop. And hey, this is great news, right? And runs up to go pay the toy shop owner. Yep. And while she's up there, Steve dumps a bunch of oil from the lamp on the doll and sets it on fire. Yes. So telling us not only that is either bad guy bed, he also is a nut, right? Yeah, he's got the big eyes. I don't know if you've noticed this. In multiple scenes, they zoom in on the eyes. Yes, yes. And they must be using a chemical here because they've made Keir's eyes so dilated you almost can't see the rest of the people and I think for the end and this happens to Anne too. I think this is a subtle enhancement to make him look crazier. Certainly in the next part of this movie his eyes are like black saucers in his pupils and I think that's probably You know, chemically induced to make him even seem dead here. I didn't notice that, but it makes subtle sense. There is a really good shot where the camera zooms in on Steve's face and his eyes in particular. It just, it looks really good. Yeah, he's like, you suddenly realize that this movie isn't a mystery. It's a horror movie like Psycho. and Steve is Norman Bates. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, it's hard to see this movie existing without psycho. Yeah, psycho, I don't think it's 60, right? And this is 65. So this is like, like, this is a wonderful genre mash-up in a way. It's like a noir thriller crossed with psycho. Yeah, I don't know the history of kind of the psycho, the psycho path in film. Yeah, I would be interested in, you know, the major film here, but you know, when did the psychopath arrived? When did we start associating psychopaths with like kind of twisted family? Yeah, you know, backstories. And anyway, when Anne runs back down and Steve knocks her out, it kind of caught me with a window chop like Roger Moore, right to the under jaw. Yeah, so it made me think not the first movie we watched that made me think of Captain Kirk like knocking somebody out like probably Exactly. Anyway, he takes her to a a hospital It's in the middle of the night takes her to hospital. He you know basically ones a doctor, you know keep keep her sedated. She's going to be crazy when she wakes up a blah blah blah and then he leaves She then she wakes up and she sneaks out of the hospital and kind of an extended stealth escape scene. Do you have anything you want to say with us? I just want to this is this was to me one of the great parts of the movie. I just like to throw some praise on Carol Linnley here just for her acting because you you always believe her. She's up against like one of the great ones and Lawrence Olivia in that pub scene. Yeah. And she's great. And like when she's the distraught mother, she's great. And here, rather than be histrionic or big, she takes agency. She knows what's going on before we do. Yeah. And she doesn't run out of this room. She very cleverly sneaks out of this room. And just And just her performance here convinced me that like I knew Steve was bad news, but it was still like you still haven't seen bunny, right? So yeah, you're like, or this is weird. There's some psychosexual brother sister thing going on here, but is it just Steve that's crazy, you know, like I didn't know that yet. And her performance here made me think I think it is just Steve that's crazy. I think she's acting like a rational person. Yes, you know what I mean, in escaping the hospital, she knows this is a trap for her. Yes. And she doesn't run to the police for help. She has figured out, I think, what's going on. Yeah. So she she moves to deal with it herself. Yeah. And so when she thinks out of the hospital, again, it's a great scene. What one last thing about that scene, though, in the basement. The janitor in the boiler room is listening to that zombie song. Yes. Yeah. That's right. Yes. Yeah, I think just out of reach is the song that recurs, right? Yes, it's usually, it usually, there are two songs in the poem, but it zooms in when they're singing just out of reach. And the, you know, the lyrics of that song feel thematically appropriate with what's happening on the screen at that time. It may be wonder when the first time you see that kind of like, dijective user. Yeah, yeah, so adding you right, Anne goes to not back to our flat, not back to the police to report what's going on. But she goes to the mansion where brother Steve is staying. And we get another, this is the finale scene of the movie. It's quite extended and it is a remarkable scene. Yeah. If you like a good suspenseful, you know, seeing a people sneaking around in the dark and trying not to let the psycho crazy guy see them, the scene is for you. Long story short, she kind of forces her way into the house and she sees Steve. He is burning and getting ready to bury a bunch of stuff that I think belong to money. Is that right? All of Yeah, we see that stuff to animal at the beginning. I think we see the coffee picks up the coffee mug at one point. So there are things we recognize, plus we have stuff. Yeah. So it's worth noting. So we still haven't seen Bunny yet. It still isn't clear what is going on. So Anne sneaks around and stalks Steve as he heads out into the backyard where there is a small grave shaped hole that he's dug. He prints. He puts all of Bunny's stuff into there and then as if remembering something abruptly. Yeah. This was, this was a, this is he's, he turns any sprints back to the house out to his car. He opens the trunk and here at long last, we finally see Bunny. Funny. She's real. And she's been trapped in his trunk all day. Yes. So she's kind of a sluggish and out of it. So he, he calls bunny back out. And I think it's made pretty clear that he intends to kill bunny and bear here, right? Yeah. And so this is, tell me how you want to talk about this scene, John, or what you want to call out, because at a certain point, and reveals herself to Steve, and we get this, the movie's climactic sequence, which is Anne, who is desperate to save Bunny, but must interact with Steve in a way to keep him from just killing Bunny or Anne, or both of them. So why don't you tell us about this, Enjohn? Well, it's interesting because she essentially manipulates him and she realizes who he is. I think she might have known before, but she talks to him like a little sister talking to a little brother. And when she adopts that stance with him and talks to him in that way, He becomes very enthusiastic as if he's drawn back to childhood and is willing to go along with what he says. So for example, rather than scream at him, like he's got bunny and rather than scream at him at the beginning, because she knows, I mean, this would be interesting on modern film because I think, uh, we have a different view of power dynamics. And in this, in a modern film, I think she might try to like assault him or sneak away to staff him or something. And I'm not saying that would be boring. It's just not how it would have been done in 1965. So what she does is she's like, Steve, you're so smart. You were so clever. When did you sneak bunny out? And he's like, I know I'm so clever. And he tells her like how he snuck bunny out of the school. So then they become like two children talking in that point. She sort of extends this scene. I think she's waiting there's just trying to escape But she's also waiting for the police to figure out and come and so she'll keep's recommending fun games They could play and when she puts her attention on him like he is her focus and and talks to him like a child He goes along. Yeah, he like regresses to that childhood state and it's It's chilling because, you know, after after a while, he'll revert back to his more murderous psycho phase. Yes. And then you can see and frantically trying to think like how else can I just keep this going until either help arrives or an opportunity to escape presents itself. Yeah, and she keeps trying to escape. I don't mean to give the impression she doesn't have agent she is trying to figure out how to get out with a four-year-old girl, but. It is hard to climb a fence for the four-year-old girl, for example. Yeah. Yeah. So this goes on for a while. It's really great. So we learn in this, you know, Steve expresses. We learn why he has kidnapped a bunny and is going to kill bunny. It's because he presents bunny for coming between him and his sister. In the same way that he resented, we learn that, um, that Anne's, when Anne was a girl, she had that imaginary friend name, Bunny. Steve insisted that that they kill Bunny because that imaginary friend was getting in between their relationship. And in the same way, he is now going to kill the real girl Bunny so that he can have a perfect close relationship with a sister again. Yeah, and I want to bring up something here that we haven't talked about, and we were probably remiss. So Anne is a single mother. Oh, yes. And proud of that fact. And when Lawrence Olivier's inspector sort of quizzes her on it, he's not actually as judgmental as I thought he would be, but right, she basically says, look, I, I got pregnant by this person. I did not. want to spend my rest of my life with him and they didn't want to spend it with me. So I have just chosen to become a single mother and she's very clear about that. So in this scene, where Stevie is freaking out not only does he resent Bonnie forgetting between him and Anne, he resents that boy. He calls him that boy who that dirty boy who got you pregnant. Like he resents uh, him too. So she's jealous of any intimate. It's almost like obsession, but in 1965. Ah, interesting. Yeah. So there is a great tense scene, John. It's like not quite a jump scare, but a really good one where Bunny has gotten away from Steve who has his playing blind man's bluff, so she put a blindfold on. It's very good. And then she, but she has snuck off with Bunny and she realizes she can't climb over the fence with Bunny, so she sneaks into this green house and hides Bunny there. Yep. And basically says I'll be right back. and then she steps out of the greenhouse. She locks the greenhouse door behind her as she goes out of the greenhouse and then the camera immediately pans and Steve was in the greenhouse. Yeah. So now she's locked out of the greenhouse and she's a great like oh shit moment. Like oh yeah. So that all leads though to the final scene where it looks like the game is not working as well and Steve looks pretty determined to kill bunny. Yes. So as a last ditch attempt and runs over, well, why didn't you describe it, John? So she runs over and then she cannot convince him. He's in full mute psychomo. He's no longer a little boy. And she has now started just to openly beg him. Don't just don't do this. Right. And that's not working. So she goes to the swing that we saw on the very first shot. And she starts swinging. And she says, Stevie, won't you push me on the swing? And he gets really excited again and runs over. And there's this really intense scene and like the camera is spinning around. And she's like, I wanna touch the sky, like it's a super intense psycho drama scene going on here. Yeah, yeah, and she's making a lot of noise and it, and that is when the police burst through. Yes, because parallel to this, the police have been following up on leads. And I thought it was kind of interesting that the police, aren't portrayed as as buffoons in any way. No, in this. You see what you do is at the end of the second act. You see them about to discover the the crucial clue. Right. And then we cut away from them for most of the third act. Yes. And then they come in having figured out that clue. So yeah, well, this has all been going on. The police have been running down some leads. And basically, they caught out a lie that Steve told them. It's about just a scared about what date they showed up. And that lets them find a passenger manifest. And that brings it all down. And they show up here. And the movie ends with Steven custody and Bunny walking off. Yeah, and when Bunny walking off, I think they're, you know, again, in a modern movie, she would have like some support system or something, but Lawrence I literally is like, I think you just need to go home and have a stiff drinking go to bed. Which is like the British solution for everything, a stiff drink and a good night's sleep, I guess. So that is a wrap on Bunny Lake is missing. A film I had never heard of until I watched it this week and that had nothing to do with zombies or did it or did it. And yeah, John, do you want to go through some of our questions here, or does it not really make sense? I don't think it makes sense. I just want to say, some may consider this a practical joke. I considered it a wonderful adventure, and I loved seeing this movie. Yeah. The next time I see Brad in person, I am going to congratulate him on getting us to watch this cool movie and do what felt like a little scavenger hunt. Yeah. But I am going to slap him in the face with my most expensive glove. Okay John, why don't we do you have any final thoughts about the movie you should watch it even if you even if we spell it for you like it's a pretty like it's one of those movies and I hate to sound like a like a Like somebody who's brain is broken by his phone, but just like everybody else it is a little bit like I really didn't look at my phone during the movie. I really wanted to know what was going on. I was compelled by the action and the actors and the whole thing so it's a good movie you should watch it and it is so this is I think this is our longest movie if you don't count jacus which was like four hours yeah from nineteen this movie was like an hour and forty five minutes I think yeah it doesn't feel like into we've watched like hour and ten minute movies that felt like they were three hours this is not this is the opposite of that so no it's great John, I just have one final wrap-up question that there is one question that is relevant. John, yes. Is this a zombie movie a movie with zombies or a movie with these zombies? It's a movie with these zombies. Okay. All right. Any other wrap-up we need to do here? And now that's it. I just want to thank everyone for listening. We're ending our going to have a little fun in between seasons here. We've got a couple other fun things planned. So look out for those. Stand by. Please rate us in iTunes or Spotify. Give us a good rating. 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